GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

http://ostatic.com/blog/gimp-single-window-mode-almost-ready-hardware-acceleration-planned

by Garbage • 15 years ago

111 59 15 years ago

mariuolo• 15 years ago

Duke Nukem Forever has already been released, just sayin'.

Wine reached 1.0, gmail got out of beta, Starcraft II released. Little risk of GNU Hurd shipping any time soon though...

Newky• 15 years ago

I don't know, GNU Hurd was taken up for GSOC. We could see amazing things yet :)

struppi2• 15 years ago

I think I might like a single window mode. I am not a "power user", but I regularily use Gimp when I do artwork for my homepage or climbing blog. I'll have to give it a try soon.

keithpeter2• 15 years ago

Its useful (try the preview 2.7.3 version). Can't set it as an option yet.

keithpeter2• 15 years ago

Sorry I meant can't set single window as the start up option as yet, you get the three windows then have to select single window from the Tools menu

blub4• 15 years ago

I have been using GIMP for 9 months and the UI is exasperating.

It's not just multi-window mode, things like the way the windows are rendered and designed, focus issues, shortcuts, missing features and a lot of other annoyances.

The most disappointing thing is that I'm not even doing intensive graphical work, just retouching some photos, moving things around, resizing, etc.

struppi2• 15 years ago

Some aspects of Gimp are a little bit annoying (especially on a Mac), but you can do pretty cool things with it once you get used to it. I do some artwork for some web sites I created and Gimp is a good tool for this. Photoshop probably would be better, but for as little as I do me it is way too expensive.

nimrody2• 15 years ago

On OS X, you can try Seashore (http://seashore.sourceforge.net/The_Seashore_Project/About.h...). Based on GIMP code but simplified and emphasizing usability.

gst• 15 years ago

The UI works quite well with a focus-follows-mouse policy - as it has been standard in Unix for decades. With today's click-to-focus window managers the UI is just horrible (but that's not Gimp's fault).

LawnGnome• 15 years ago

To an extent it is Gimp's fault, though. It's not as though click-to-focus is a new fad that's sprung up and surprised everyone -- it's been the default way focus has worked in GNOME and KDE for as long as I can remember, and I've been using it for the best part of fifteen years on Linux.

The fact that such a common use case (almost certainly the most common use case, not to mention Gimp-related irritation, for at least the past decade) has been ignored for so long is disappointing.

BDFL_Xenu• 15 years ago

So that's the justification? That the GIMP expects WM settings that were only the default on TWM and the like over 15 years ago?

Well, I must say that I haven't seen any other application of its size take the "NO WARRANTY" shouting of the GPL so seriously.

   This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
   but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
   MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

But the program did start as a showcase for some graphics manipulation algorithms that the authors made. Maybe the fault is with the people with the high hopes that it was actually meant for them to use and edit their photos.

theBobMcCormick• 15 years ago

It seems rather inaccurate to claim that focus-follows-mouse is "standard in Unix".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but focus-follows-mouse hasn't been the standard in Unix for quite some time. I don't think it's ever been the default in Gnome or KDE. Is it the default on anything that isn't antiquated and/or super-niche (like FVWM or TWM, etc.)?

yason• 15 years ago

Haven't seen a default configuration of focus-follows-mouse for quite a while on any "big" Linux desktops. I always turn it on manually the first thing I touch a new system so it's not a big problem. However, a bigger problem is that finding a strict focus-follows-mouse is getting more difficult: for example Metacity can't do it, only sloppy focus-follows-mouse.

But the strict one would be the real focus-follows-mouse: with that you never lose the focus unintentionally since the focus is always under the mouse cursor. With sloppy focus, a newly opened window might of might not steal the focus regardless of the mouse position, and I quite often find myself typing into the wrong window after that.

nimrody2• 15 years ago

I haven't been tracking GIMP development for quite a while and couldn't find the information online.

Does the current version of GIMP finally support non-destructive editing (adjustment layers)?

Is GIMP still too slow for photo retouching?

blub4• 15 years ago

No, the version that I'm using doesn't seem to support this so I duplicate the layer and work on the copy.

As for slowness, it depends on what kind of retouching you are doing. I'm retouching mobile graphics assets, which are small enough and I haven't seen any lags. I image that things are very different when working with high quality photos...

wcoenen• 15 years ago

> Does the current version of GIMP finally support non-destructive editing (adjustment layers)?

Layer effects are planned for Gimp 3.2. http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Roadmap

It will be achieved by integrating the GEGL library (http://www.gegl.org/) which enables the use of OpenCL acceleration (http://www.khronos.org/opencl/).

nodata3• 15 years ago

Can you name some of these things that have been bothering you for the past nine months?

blub4• 15 years ago

The biggest problem I have with GIMP is that it's not intuitive. Every time I open it I have to stop and think how I am supposed to do what I am trying to do, my work never flows. This has such an impact on my productivity that I'm desperately looking for alternatives that don't involve purchasing Photoshop - now looking at Pixelmator. Other members of the team have switched to Paint.NET or other simple editors, but they are too simple for me.

Another problem that I have is with focus - sometimes the picture window loses input focus to one of the tool windows and then the keyboard shortcuts stop working. I have to click on the window and then use the shortcut, but when clicking the current tool will execute its action (such as paint a black blob in the middle of the layer), so I have to click outside the picture area (might be hard to do) or hunt for the title bar. Furthermore, when the tool windows have focus they control some of the widgets in the tool window, popping up subwindows or changing settings by accident.

Yet another issue is text editing and selection. GIMP does not allow me to do live text-editing, instead it pops up a dialog box and I have to adjust the actual text rect in the background. Every time I click the text rect to adjust it the tool windows flicker into view for 0.5 seconds, very annoying. Selections are significantly harder to control compared to Photoshop, where you can do pretty much anything to a selection just by using the mouse and one or two keys.

General UI problems:

* dialogs that are too small

* dialogs popping up over other dialogs

* many dialogs that cover the image when shown and I have to move them out of the way

* dialogs that sometimes remember their position, sometimes show up at apparently random locations

* tool windows exiting the screen

* tool fields that just look like they were thrown together without any thought to spacing, grouping and alignment (check out the rectangle select or the almost invisible spinner arrows for the layer transparency)

* the layers tool window is especially difficult to use with a mouse (dragging & dropping, ordering, linking)

* tools that reset their settings (e.g: move tool rests to pick a layer to move instead of move active)

* general disregard for UI design that makes the UI look crowded (e.g layers tab icons)

* the design choice of clipping layers to the visible image area, forcing you to resize the canvas and the layers unnecessarily

I could go on and on and on. I can't remember using GIMP even once without being annoyed by something in the UI that breaks my work flow.

The features I miss the most are adjustments layers, layer grouping (this is so painful when working with a lot of layers).

watmough• 15 years ago

If you're on a Mac or Linux, it's easy to switch to a click-through model where you don't have to click a window before selecting a tool. It renders GIMP usable on a Mac if you do this.

Personally, I just haven't managed to get into Pixelmator, I always try, then end up running back to GIMP, and I'm not a heavy user of the program by any means, though I did do all the FemCal art in it.

The biggest fix to GIMP right now should be to get 16-bit color depth working. 12-bit isn't a huge problem for me, but I can understand it holding people back who are doing lots of photo manipulation.

exDM69• 15 years ago

Am I the only one who actually likes GIMP's multi-window interface? It works great with multiple displays. I've seen people do amazing things with GIMP, using a combination of keyboard shortcuts and clever use of the toolbox - in the hands of a skilled craftsman, it's an excellent and fast tool to use.

Of course I've been using GIMP since it was still in it's infancy and I've never used Photoshop, so I didn't have a trouble adjusting.

It's still cool that they implement the single window mode, since it's been one of the prime source of complaints from photoshoppers and people migrating from other software.

callahad• 15 years ago

I've found that the multi-window mode feels best when you're using a Linux window manager that allows you to move a window by holding a modifier key and clicking anywhere on the window.

But if you can's easily grab and move the floating palettes around, using the GIMP becomes more of an exercise in window positioning than in image manipulation.

stuaxo• 15 years ago

On windows - AltDrag makes life easier in a lot of situations, couldn't live without it now!

whiterabbit2• 15 years ago

God be praised.

jcromartie• 15 years ago

Hardware acceleration with OpenCL? That's not the kind of acceleration I expected.

Ralith• 15 years ago

What kind did you expect?

qusiba• 15 years ago

Everybody I know who knows GIMP thinks it's terrible. I'm getting used it so I guess I'm really a bit tougher than normal people.

mberning• 15 years ago

Finally. I know that this feature has been talked about for at least 3 years.

grandinj• 15 years ago

The gimp developers were initially strongly resistant to the idea of single-window mode, so it's not a surprise that it's taken this long.

sapphirecat• 15 years ago

I'v been eagerly awaiting this, since my major annoyances all have to do with the floating dialogs:

Not hiding the palettes when the last gimp window was minimized. Minimize -> d'oh! -> unminimize -> secret key shortcut[1] -> minimize again. Older versions used to hide them with any image window being minimized, so it was minimize#1 -> sigh -> minimize#2 -> unminimize#2 back then.

Placing the toolboxes at x,0 by default so they were underneath the taskbar/menubar. I keep my taskbar on top on Windows, and I'm glad I know about Alt+Space there.

Not having the image window's keyboard shortcuts work when a tool window is focused, for which I know no workaround.

Having the tool windows appear in the Alt+Tab list.

Actually, I can think of one more that was remedied with 2.0: the menu used to be hidden. You could right-click the image or hit the ">" button at the corner of the rulers, but it took me a long time to figure out how to save my first image.

[1] TAB. I think its action is finally available in the menus, and the shortcut displayed with it, in 2.7.x.

headbiznatch• 15 years ago

Love GIMP, but I really wish they would fix the issues with bit depth (precision in general) and IMHO, proper CMYK support.

CrLf• 15 years ago

Single-window mode has been one of the most requested features for GIMP. Fact: when it finally comes, no one will care (they never did).

Actually, the multi-window interface is much better when you have virtual-desktops (everywhere but Windows) or multiple screens.

Pixelmator on the Mac is a multi-window application (like most Mac apps are) and I don't see anyone complaining about it.

The problems are:

1. GIMP isn't Photoshop;

2. When a window is clicked, all windows should come to the foreground (more precisely, all palettes).

For 1. there's not much that can be done. Whatever the application, if it has to do with graphics, people will complain about this (everyone will complain that it is missing a certain Photoshop feature, up to the total of Photoshop features). At the same time, they will complain about Photoshop itself, and trying to be more like Photoshop isn't going to work, uncanny valley style.

As for 2... It's a window manager problem actually. On the Mac, again, Pixelmator does this just fine and it works great.

whiterabbit2• 15 years ago

That's funny; I use GIMP daily and I've always thought I was very much looking forward to the single-window interface on my multiple-screen non-virtual desktop environment. I guess I was wrong.

jamesteow• 15 years ago

I tend to agree.

My background: I've been using Photoshop for about fifteen years nearly everyday.

Just to be more informed, I decided to download Mac version of GIMP.

What I like: - Feels much more nimble, lightweight

- Seems like it has most of core tools I need

What prevents me from using it: - The interface seems really unfinished. I think that's what I like about Pixelmator: it's polished and looks somewhat similar to Photoshop's layout

- The shortcuts are all different. I'm not even sure I can customize the shortcuts in some of the contexts as even some of the ones in Photoshop are sort of built in. That alone would be a huge deterrent as I rarely click on any interfaces.

- Layer effects and smart objects. I know they are in the Roadmap but without them, I can't re-use elements others or I have made from Photoshop and it does effect image creation.

- Masking is a little kludgy. When I imported my PSDs with shape masking, they all disappeared. Does it support vector masking?

- Doesn't seem to support importing vectors from Illustrator as it automatically outputs some of the elements as raster elements.

- Lack of layer folders.

The whole single-window mode? I think that wouldn't nearly entice me as it's not that much of a deterrent.

choice• 15 years ago

I agree with all those points, but especially vector smart objects and vector masks/paths; it's insane how useful they are. Those features alone are worth paying for Photoshop.

GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

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