Ask HN: Are any of you still unvaccinated? If so, why?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28648776

by electrotype • 5 years ago

11 22 5 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

We are an open minded community, right? We're curious.

Let's listen to those who have chosen not to get vaccinated and what are their reasons.

electrotype4• 5 years ago

Should I go first?

ggm3• 5 years ago

Yes. What's holding you back, assuming you have reticence?

electrotype4• 5 years ago

I think my story is the same as many reluctant people: I had Covid, at the very beginning of the pandemic. It was like a flu but I lost my sense of smell for several months.

Having Covid made me question whether or not I should get the vaccine. My body did fight the real disease, why should I inject myself with something that only tries to mimic the real disease? I started to do some research...

My current conclusion is that my immune system is better than that of any vaccinated person who has not contracted the actual virus.

Trias112• 5 years ago

I don't trust "vaccine" rushed into the market.

Politicians are pushing it so hard and so persistently so I wonder why.

I want to follow the money trail.

Who pays whom? how much? Where money goes after that?

It smells like a giant collusion between pharma and politicians.

pgt2art• 5 years ago

Believe is all in your head, and thats why i like science.

Trias112• 5 years ago

Politicians will negotiate funding, compensation and mutual benefits terms with large pharma companies.

Politicians will invite corrupt, credentialized individual(s) and will incentivize them to make a claims.

That's pretty much how modern science delivery mechanism operates on the value of covid vaccines.

Blackstrat• 5 years ago

The IFR in my age bracket is less than 0.5% according to CDC. That’s on par with a bad flu year. Why would I take a vaccine that was rushed to market, hyped by bureaucrats, and which promotes viral mutations (look up peer reviewed research regarding ADE). So in my mind, a very risky cost-benefit equation.

quetzlbazaar3• 5 years ago

I am not vaccinated either so playing Devil's advocate. I have not seen anything convincing regarding a risk of ADE for the vaccines as they are used in production. As far as I can tell, ADE could potentially happen for your natural antibodies as well.

Also, although the vaccine was "rushed to market" relative to the normal process, perhaps the normal process for approving vaccines was overly slow? Maybe as a society we are too conservative in general with things like vaccine approval, and in fact (if you take that these vaccines aren't particularly unsafe which you may not) we were wrong before and the process for how these new COVID vaccines were approved is closer to the "right" speed.

The widespread vaccination as is happening in the West specifically targeted against the spike protein will lead to an evolutionary pressure on the coronavirus to mutate its spike protein. I think all things considered though this is just something we can accept. As the mRNA vaccines were much more suited to quick, mass production it made sense to use them and they are effective at stopping people getting seriously ill.

quetzlbazaar3• 5 years ago

I am not vaccinated. Firstly, I think it is great that effective vaccines have been able to get to market so quickly and in general lean towards the view that regulators and society in general is too conservative with this sort of thing. I support even things like businesses and other entities being able to require vaccine or health passports, if they really want to and think it's sensible. Necessarily, I believe I do not need it or that it wouldn't be all that beneficial to me, otherwise I would be getting the vaccine regardless of any other reason I don't want to be getting it. As someone under the age of 30 in relatively good health who has already been exposed to the virus, I believe I can selfishly get away with not getting it, even though getting vaccinated can improve your immunity somewhat even if you already have decent natural immunity to from a prior infection, as I understand it. I do strongly believe that the risk of COVID in general to my demographic (and to me as an individual) has been overstated by governments and scientific bodies, and deliberately so in some cases.

Primarily though, the reason is that I do not agree with the general politics around COVID in Western societies - lockdowns, performative hygiene theatre, a trend towards authoritarianism, some extremely severe dishonesty and politicking on the part of institutions I might have (mistakenly) respected before like the World Health Organization, and most of all the suppression of and hatred towards those who express any serious dissent from whatever the party line may be on COVID at any given time, which, of course, changes and even reverses. There is no real way to vote against all this, it is very hard to politically organize against it. Where I live all the major political parties support most if not all of the measures. Debate is only around degree and alternatives cannot be considered. It is a taboo and also a class marker to disagree strongly with any of it.

I think many people are aware that there are things that the government and other bodies have lied about and gotten away with, that we have had to go along with over the course of this pandemic, but accept that it is or was for a "greater good". There is a distinction in my mind between being passively complicit in something you don't agree with, and actively collaborating with it. If I go and get a vaccine, that I (perhaps mistakenly?) believe I don't need and don't want, because the government and the media whom I don't trust and everyone knows do lie from time to time, are propagandizing me and my peers to, using emotional manipulation, and even subtly and not so subtly threatening to restrict my freedoms if I do not get it, then - what am I doing? Personally I'm not much more scared of COVID than I am of a plane I take being hijacked. There is a bigger picture here in terms of how society is trending that needs to be slowed down at all costs, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and take a small risk here. It should not in my opinion be acceptable at all for governments to act like how most have with regards to COVID. I want to be able to make my own choice and have the right to not go along with and submit to the theatre of this new, dark power structure which has swept over the world. On a level deep down, I believe people know getting this vaccine is not entirely a free choice, from a political perspective. There are political and social consequences to not getting it, orthogonal to how safe, effective or beneficial it might be.

The vaccines per se are not an issue. They could be 100% safe and 100% effective and I would still be reluctant to get them. I may get the vaccine at some point in the future, but the only reason would be something like if the nature of COVID changed such that I didn't think immunity from my prior infection was sufficient, or more likely out of a sense of political self-preservation if unvaccinated become scapegoats or targets, which they are now to an extent.

arrakis20212• 5 years ago

I don’t think there is any meaningful risk to getting the vaccine. But you asked for “why” so here goes:

1. I Have had covid and got over it. The fatality rate in my age group is <.1% There is simply no necessity. I am not going to get something I don’t need just because Pfizer needs to get paid.

2. I recall a half year’s worth of politicians and media saying not to trust “a rushed vaccine promoted by Trump.” Most people are not just going to conveniently forget that messaging.

3. I have yet to see any data that explains why my natural immunity is inferior to what’s provided by a vaccine. This would be a first. The “TruSt tHE ScIeNCe” crowd needs to explain why this is being ignored.

Hope that helps.

quetzlbazaar3• 5 years ago

Regarding 3., the reason it is being ignored is because it may dampen uptake of the vaccine by people who had already had and recovered from COVID. You probably were already aware this was a reason but just to clarify and in case. It's probable that being vaccinated can improve on your natural immunity[1], though since natural immunity can be comparable to or better than immunity from vaccination, it shouldn't be considered necessary in my opinion. At least in Israel, their Health Ministry is recommending people who have already had COVID need only get one dose, as a compromise.[2]

[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

[2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-study-recovered-...

arrakis20212• 5 years ago

Oh yes you’re right I understand that reasoning, and I don’t necessarily disagree with it - but my point is that it’s still a reason for hesitation.

That very act of avoiding the topic/suppressing it and pushing “specific science” makes lots of people - many who are very intelligent and aware - suspicious. Pretending that these people are conspiracists or of lower IQ is just counter productive, and will get nowhere.

Ask HN: Are any of you still unvaccinated? If so, why?

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