Ask HN: Do you enjoy or dislike anime?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28296858

by Dracophoenix • 5 years ago

18 24 5 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

For what reasons? When did your enjoyment/hatred of it start?

jsz0• 5 years ago

I used to like anime back in the 90s because it was totally different than anything I had ever seen before. Then I started meeting other people who liked anime and noticed a shocking number of them really liked anime with little girls in their underwear. I know that's not everyone but it totally turned me off to the whole genre. I can just never look at it the same way now.

krapp2• 5 years ago

The Japanese character archetype of the "perverted old man" (oyaji) can be particularly troublesome when you're not expecting it. Particularly when it's played for laughs, like with Kimura in Azumanga Daioh

trinovantes• 5 years ago

I enjoy Anime. Its comparatively low cost allows much more risk taking than other mediums and can occasionally produce amazing stories that you can't find in western media.

khedoros1• 5 years ago

Sailor Moon and Dragonball were the first I was aware of, and I didn't find them interesting. Sometime about 1999, a friend introduced me to Slayers and Generator Gawl, and that started an obsession that lasted about 10 years (conveniently, the span where my internet speeds exploded and I could download fansubs of new series). I rarely watch anime myself anymore, although my wife sometimes puts some on, and I'll watch it when she does.

I think I became familiar enough with the tropes that the novelty wore off. I don't enjoy it like I used to, but I don't have a particular hatred/dislike for it, as a whole. There were always bits that I found distasteful, though.

Dracophoenix3• 5 years ago

By distasteful bits, do you mean fanservice?

cableshaft• 5 years ago

Was obsessed with it back in high school. Death Note, Hikaru No Go, and Miyazaki movies I still rewatch sometimes (also the anime based on the Persona and Danganronpa games), but in general I got out of the habit and don't really seek out new stuff much anymore.

I also used to prefer watching it subtitled, but nowadays I'm usually trying to do something else while I'm watching TV, so it's too hard to keep up with subtitles most of the time.

sysadm1n• 5 years ago

I never liked it. My main gripe with it is that it has adult subject matter, but dressed up in a puerile and immature cartoon style. You can be serious using other media. It doesn't always have to be Anime. I enjoyed Sin City immensely however, even though it had Anime-type CGI.

Dracophoenix3• 5 years ago

Is your contention with a particular design trend or do you dislike anything with a serious subject being animated at all? There have been several styles of anime throughout the decades. Ghost in the Shell (1995) and Berserk (1997) have a "grittier" and more somber style that might better compare with the noir elements of Sin City.

Salgat• 5 years ago

I've simply gotten much more picky about it. I'll watch a couple shows a year. I cannot tolerate filler. There are sadly some shows I would like to watch that filler prevents because it badly screws with the pacing (which is also why I really enjoyed DBZ Kai).

muzani• 5 years ago

I try to like it, but I don't. It drags out. I really enjoyed the first two seasons of JoJo, but the others feel like they're stretching a 4 episode story across 40 episodes.

Modern anime feels a little like Clash of Clans. It's highly commercialized. Instead of making you feel good, it gives you just enough of a feel good dose and hides the rest, so you'd face enough withdrawal to consume more.

It works for something to watch during lunch break, when I just want something mindless to clear my brain and not something philosophical like Loki.

Anime movies are good but rare. I really enjoyed Spirited Away and The Wind Rises.

agent008t2• 5 years ago

You have probably watched them but '5cm per second', 'Garden of words' and others from Makoto Shinkai are very good.

screye• 5 years ago

I used to like anime, but have fully moved to manga due to art preferences and time availability.

I dislike the juvenile underpinnings of many of these 'seasonal' anime that get a few seasons of generic tropes until it gets axed.

That being said, I also dislike how a medium gets chasitized for its content. Many anime have had profound impact on me and stand alongside movie/tv greats in the live action world.

I would love to see more creative explorations of the medium like Mob Psycho 100 did in the anime adaptation.

Lastly , anime does superhero and comedy better than anything the west's TV shows have to offer. Japan truly has a superior understanding of these genres.

solarmist• 5 years ago

I love anime despite all of it's warts and blemishes and worse (as mentioned by others here). And I've been in and out of it heavily since I learned what it was my sophomore/junior year of HS (around 1996/7).

I've learned that for me it comes down to the different way of storytelling and emphasized.

A great breakdown of some of the differences are can be read here. https://www.tofugu.com/japan/japanese-horror-structure/

especially the diagrams from

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20198301?seq=2

tldr: "In a Western story the plot is moved forward by the character’s goals."

while in Japanese story telling they might go like this

"In a simple-reaction story, the character’s own actions and the universe’s reactions to them drive the story to a conclusion that may or may not have anything to do with character goals."

and the ending.

"This leads us to the second significant difference between Japanese and Western story grammar: the conclusion. The Japanese story grammar ends with “events and/or emphasis,” whereas the more western model ends with a “resolution.”"

kappuchino• 5 years ago

Back in the early 2000nds I watched the anime Serial Expriments Lain[1] with deep interest, nothing after that came close. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain

blueflow• 5 years ago

There is a big lainon community around. JJ Chikada is releasing some SEL remixes from time to time, the release date is reason for a cyberia party each year.

SEL was also the entry point for me, with the Miyazaki movies, Death Note, NGE, Elfen Lied and Hellsing OVA being influential for me. But i think i've grown out of it during the last years.

krapp2• 5 years ago

Here's a HN thread from four months ago about Serial Experiments Lain[0].

I had it on my list of "must watch" anime for years but only got around to it last year. It comes off as purposely obscurant and parts of it haven't aged well but for anyone interested in cyberpunk anime it's essential.

I'd also recommend Ghost in the Shell (the movie and Stand Alone Complex) and the first season of Psycho pass along those lines.

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26863490

wiseleo• 5 years ago

Love it. I would say "Mask no kamen (2005)" was the inflection point. Prior to that, I watched a bunch of shows and enjoyed some of them, but then I randomly stumbled onto this masterpiece. It is so good that I was motivated to lookup its director, Hamatsu Mamoru. It truly is unlike anything else you will watch.

When you see something that good, it makes you wonder what else is out there. Among the thousands of generic shows, there are true gems like Initial D. Did you know that Initial D continued with Season 5 after taking an 8 year break? Many fans don't know the new seasons exist.

How many even know that shows like Crest of the Stars exist? Its plot complexity resembles Babylon 5.

Then there's Kaiji. Kaiji is just... something else... Truly, truly something else. A simple game of rock/paper/scissors becomes a life or death experience when combined with gambling, greed, and group dynamics. Interestingly, they released a side story from the perspective of the villain's middle manager! It is absolutely insane how they apply corporate tactics to what happens to the hapless groups of gamblers.

Now there is such a masterpiece as Soul Land from China. Chinese donghua are taking animation to next level, although their stories tend to share the same plot. Soul Land makes you feel like you are inside a video game. Not everyone likes 3D anime, but this is done exceptionally well. Tencent is offering an official subtitled release through its YouTube channel, which recently became a paid offering and I paid for it.

agent008t2• 5 years ago

Kaiji and Akagi were both amazing!

neonbones• 5 years ago

When I was at school, I watch hundreds of titles every year, but after some time, when my taste became more mature, I've started to be much pickier about anime and usually just read manga. Even with my primary career as a software engineer (and product manager for now), I love to draw, and it's always fun to see some extremely detailed manga art. It inspires me to draw something too, but I know that manga authors' work conditions are worse than in the shittiest startup you can imagine.

Sometimes I'm read some Korean and Chinese webtoons, but usually just the ones with incredible art and good action. It's hard to find anything with a good plot in these.

Anyway, I love the new wave of manga authors with "postmodern" feelings in their works and attempts to deconstruct genre cliches without a plan to make another Bleach or Naruto with 9000 chapters.

About my enjoyment, I think it's mainly because the manga is "different" from most Western media. When 2/3 anime are just "slice-of-life comedies with patsu shots," manga are diverse in plots, genres, and characters. And in my opinion, authors go much further in attempts to create strong and interesting female characters and make diverse leads in their works.

subjectsigma• 5 years ago

This is kind of like asking "Do you like video games?" E.g. the meaningfulness of the question actually depends on who you're talking to.

Consider people who play Candy Crush on their phone regularly, and people with $2000 custom PC setups and 300 hours sunk into Apex Legends. There is no overlap of interest between these people, yet they are both considered 'gamers' by some. I would say the Candy Crush player is more likely to associate themselves with the PC gamer, whereas the opposite is not true.

Recently I got invited to a Discord call with some people I didn't know. We started talking and realized that while we all spent several hours a week playing video games, none of us had true common experiences - I liked strategy games, one guy liked shooters, another liked fighting games, and so on. Conversation about games dwindled.

I have watched quite a bit of anime. That list does not include classics like Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, JoJos, DBZ, or MSG. I would have little to nothing to talk about with fans or those series. Am I an 'anime fan'?

jjice• 5 years ago

Yeah, quite a bit. I watch anime online 1-2 times a week with some friends from high school and it's a lot of fun to chat with something we all enjoy.

I understand a lot of the comments talking about some of the pervy nature of some anime, and it's absolutely true. Usually you can tell if an anime is going to rely on that kind of stuff right from the first episode or two, and I avoid those, as they're uncomfortable to watch.

I guess the main appeals to me are that I get to see another culture (Japan) that I find very interesting and if we consider the fact that many cultures have big domestic entertainment production, they're all going to have some good content. I spend a lot of my time with the Japanese stuff (manga included) because I like a lot of the themes they touch on, but I also enjoy Indian, Korean, German, English, etc media as well. Anime just happens to be one portion of that.

To limit myself to just American media would mean I'm missing out on all the best stuff around the world.

For anyone that maybe has a dislike for anime, I'd consider watching "Garden of Words", "Your Name", "Weathering with You", or "Flavors of Youth". All are very popular films between 45 minutes and two hours that have classic coming of age stories that are common in American culture, so I'd imagine they'd be a good place to start if you wanted to give anime a shot.

Dracophoenix3• 5 years ago

Why do you think that the "pervy" elements of anime are disliked? Most American teen shows and movies have plenty of innuendo and women with tiny bikinis in compromising situations. Sex comedies like American Pie, National Lampoon, and the Hangover series aren't so different in the kind of humor that one finds in fan service moments.

kazinator• 5 years ago

I get to see another culture

Well, cartoons of another culture.

notyourNMI• 5 years ago

Adding my yea to the mix.

For one, anime enables storytelling on a level and scope that would ordinarily be too expensive for real film production for most stories told. As an aside I think we're about to see a whole new level of mind-bending "realism" afforded to lower budget productions with tools like UE4/5.

You could argue that "animation" in general does this, but the particular (myriad) stylization choices in Japanese animation carry a fairly unique appeal. I think this was borne of a long-existing cultural tradition of prolifically illustrative literature.

For my part I had family that liked DBZ and similar ilk. The over-the-top-ness blinded me to the appeal as it just felt blah to me. It wasn't until I encountered more serious, darker themes in GITS, SEL, and others that I really grew attracted to the artistic potential of the medium.

I personally feel that art, in whatever form, is validated by making the observer feel something. Even if it makes them feel disgusted, annoyed, inspired, becalmed, horrified, and so forth. Given this, I value anime (or storytelling in general) that knocks me over the head with the emotional intent of the storyteller. It's really hard to get right without being heavy-handed (thus diluting the effect).

Two amazing examples come to mind: "Grave of the Fireflies" and "Ghost Hound"

Grave of the Fireflies is semi-autobiographical and will mess you up for days afterwards. Kind of like Bjork's "Dancer in the Dark". Both do an excellent job of forcing you to take a perspective that most will (fortunately) never have to endure in real life.

Ghost Hound touches on frankly f'ed up themes that an adolescent is trying to cope with. It engages supernatural elements that honestly at times practically noped me out for the imagery and setting alone. Of course this is animated fiction but the way the viewer is pulled in to the story with the protagonist was so well done that you can forget the medium to a degree. Highly recommended.

(Don't read/watch anything about these before watching if you can avoid doing so. Best to come in unopinionated.)

On a side note, I found SEL polarization to be very telling. Some people absolutely hated Serial Experiments Lain, while others like me were drawn to the bizarre reality of the story. I think the fact that this medium can be so polarizing validates my claim that this is art.

Ask HN: Do you enjoy or dislike anime?

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