Apple censors engraving service, report claims

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58258385

by unfunco • 5 years ago

98 41 5 years ago

bbc.co.uk

MajorSauce• 5 years ago

"It found:

    1,045 keywords blocked in mainland China
    542 in Hong Kong
    397 in Taiwan

In contrast, Japan, Canada and the US had between 170 and 260 filtered words."

A bit unrelated, but I find interesting that keywords are "blocked" in China and "filtered" in Japan/Canada/US.

barbegal• 5 years ago

I wouldn't read into blocked vs filtered. The report itself doesn't differentiate. This is just a BBC journalist trying to use varied vocabulary which is nicer to read.

cat199• 5 years ago

or, it's a BBC editor ensuring that china 'blocks' and the west 'filters' because that matches editorial policy.

for all we know the original text from the journalist could say 'remove' in both places - without context, we don't really know.

vvatermelone• 5 years ago

if the engraving resembles SQL content (e.g., “; DELETE FROM”) ... then the API crashes and returns an HTTP 403 code and an HTML error page as opposed to the expected JSON response

Poor Bobby Tables can't even get his name on his phone.

filoleg8• 5 years ago

Wow, this was not what I was expecting when I originally read the headline.

Initially I assumed it was just a pile-on media outrage about Apple, thinking "how is it surprising, pretty much every engraving service bans certain things that are either vulgar or trademark infringing". Reading the article scrapped all of those presumptions I had.

For those who want quick numbers from the article, here is the table showing the number of terms banned in each relevant region for engraving:

* 1,045 keywords blocked in mainland China

* 542 in Hong Kong

* 397 in Taiwan

* Japan, Canada and the US had between 170 and 260 filtered words

The most egregious example imo was the one banning engraving "8964" (literally just a 4-digit number), because it references the date of Tiananmen Square Massacre. Not the name of a politician or some living person. Just a date that is being forcefully attempted to get erased from history.

istingray4• 5 years ago

Erased - by Apple themselves

"Replying to the group, Ms Horvath said Apple's rules depended on the region - and "no third parties or government agencies have been involved in the process."

Nothing to see here says Apple's Chief Privacy officer Jane Horvath

filoleg8• 5 years ago

I have zero idea what their Chief Privacy Officer was trying to achieve with that statement. If they think that makes them look better, that's a pretty wild assumption on their end. In my eyes, even if we take that statement as truth, it makes them look even worse off than not saying it at all.

r00fus• 5 years ago

This can still be the case that the CCP simply has a "recommendation list" and companies are expected to comply and self-censor.

labster• 5 years ago

The most egregious example imo was the one banning engraving "8964" (literally just a 4-digit number)

Nah, Apple should just ban all four digit numbers so people don’t engrave their passcodes, because the sticky note kept falling off. The most egregious example to me was censoring a random common surname, Zhang.

crazygringo• 5 years ago

I mean, not sure what you expected -- it's China.

This is not really news... any company operating in China follows what the government requires (whether explicitly or implicitly), and censoring Tiananman is top of list.

I don't see any outrage to direct towards Apple here. Direct it towards China. Unless you think every company in the Western world (not just Apple) ought to cease doing any and all business with China, both in manufacturing and sales. Because I don't see anything here that Apple does that other Western companies operating in China don't.

istingray4• 5 years ago

The outrage directed at Apple might be coming from this quote from their Chief Privacy Officer "no third parties or government agencies have been involved in the process."

Why lie?

mdoms3• 5 years ago

I mean, not sure what you expected -- it's China.

It's Apple. They have confirmed it themselves that China didn't put this pressure on them.

ng12• 5 years ago

Unless you think every company in the Western world (not just Apple) ought to cease doing any and all business with China

Yes. China very clearly doesn't care what the West thinks about them. They would probably care if Apple stopped manufacturing and selling iPhones there. Economic pressure is the only pressure we can reasonably appt.

fomine3• 5 years ago

I should praise Google a bit for this perspective.

xkcd-sucks• 5 years ago

Unless you think every company in the Western world (not just Apple) ought to cease doing any and all business with China

Well, yes, we're forbidden from doing business with Iran, North Korea, etc. because they're morally abhorrent or whatever - Is China just "too big to fail?"

fvdessen• 5 years ago

The most egregious example imo was the one banning engraving "8964" (literally just a 4-digit number)

I have not found the full list for EU/USA but I suspect that 1488 might be censored in those regions.

Looking at the other examples it seems to me that in communist states the anti-communist words are censored, and in democratic states, it’s the anti-democratic ones. In the communist state, the state provides the naughty list, while in the democratic states, the demos does, but in the end both systems censor in their own ways the expression of the symbols of the most feared opposition movements

filoleg8• 5 years ago

The full list[0] of terms banned in the US is in the official Citizen Lab repo. There isn't a single number on that list, so no, 1488 isn't censored.

in communist states the anti-communist words are censored, and in democratic states, it’s the anti-democratic ones

I guess we can add to that list of anti-communist words things as 人权 (human rights) and 新聞自由 (Freedom of the press), because those are banned by Apple for engravings in China too[1].

Then look at the words banned in the US, for comparison. None of those are "anti-democratic" or even related to politics, it is all just vulgarity-related words, such as words referring to genitalia or expletives.

To be fair, I have to revise my earlier statement about "8964" being the most egregious example. I posted that comment before I noticed 人权 (human rights) on that list.

0. https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/blob/master/ap...

1. https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/blob/master/ap...

jakelazaroff2• 5 years ago

This is really hyperbolic — "engraving" in this context means words Apple will etch into your device when you buy it (see https://www.apple.com/shop/engraving-and-gift-wrap). We're really going to act like it's censorship because Apple won't write certain words on the back of your iPhone?

mdoms3• 5 years ago

Ah yes thank you for defining engraving, but I don't think anyone had mistaken this for anything else.

filoleg8• 5 years ago

It isn't about them not allowing certain words, it is about which specific words they aren't allowing.

Afaik, they had restrictions on it since the feature was introduced. It was mostly just restricting vulgarity and trademarked stuff (just like with all products that allow customizable strings, e.g., you cannot buy custom adidas shoes that have customized text saying "NIKE" on them or "FUCK", but you can put "abcdef" or your name or whatever other random string you want).

What this is actually about is which specific strings they are banning this time. And while restricting vulgarity or trademarked stuff makes sense, I think it is reasonable for people to consider it censorship when a number (8964) used to reference the date of a historical event gets banned simply because CCP doesn't like their citizens to remember that date.

That scenario above sounds like proper censorship to me, as opposed to simply blocking trademarked stuff.

jakelazaroff2• 5 years ago

If you really want 8964 on your iPhone, just find an engraving service and get them to do it for you? There are thousands of them on Etsy; I'm sure there are plenty in China too.

Frankly, calling this censorship just seems like a category error to me. We're talking about one company not selling you a thing — even though thousands of other companies who will ostensibly gladly sell you that same thing! We need to stop defining censorship as "any time I can't force someone to do something I want".

haunter• 5 years ago

List of words are here

https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/tree/master/ap...

kevin_thibedeau• 5 years ago

Missing a lot of ethnic slurs but Dr. Assman is safe for now.

mdoms3• 5 years ago

"As with everything at Apple, the process for engraving is led by our values," chief privacy officer Jane Horvath wrote in a letter provided to CitizenLab

If you had any doubt about Apple's values.

nsizx• 5 years ago

As long as there are filtered words in the US no one can claim the higher moral ground here.

filoleg8• 5 years ago

Ah yes, because Apple in the US filters words that fall under an enforced trademark or under vulgarity just like most "custom engraving/writing" services do, it means that the US cannot claim moral ground over a regime filtering strings related to historical events or politics.

US would lose its moral high ground on this one when Apple stops allowing people to reference US politics or dates of historical events in their engravings. Which is not something that is the case now, and I do not foresee it becoming the case anytime soon.

Check the list of words that are banned for engravings in the US here[0] and then compare it to the list of words that are banned in China[1]. Note how pretty much every single word banned in the US is either a racial slur or something vulgar. While the Chinese banlist (in addition to the list of all the ones included in the US) features gems such as "STANDWITHHONGKONG" and "XIJINPING" and "8964".

0. https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/blob/master/ap...

1. https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/blob/master/ap...

reindeerboy91• 5 years ago

I had a look at the lists (hosted on Github, sourced from another post here). On the surface, the lists for China, HK, and TW are longer. But if we consider that these lists contain both English filters and their counterparts in Asian languages, by design they will be much longer.

For example, US is listed as 170 filters. You can see the majority of them in the HK list + their translations in Cantonese + specific terms for HK.

In China, where at least 5 "languages" are covered, including traditional Chinese, simplified Chinese, Japanese, rhymes, and pinyin, the 1,045 (6 times more than US' 170) does not seem excessive at all.

(Edit: corrected filter counts)

filoleg8• 5 years ago

It isn't just about the languages. Check some words in english present on the list of strings banned in China that aren't present on the list of strings banned in the US.

Also, I have no idea where you got the 260 number for the US. Here is the official CitizenLab repo link[0] to the US list, it contains only 170 terms.

0. https://github.com/citizenlab/chat-censorship/blob/master/ap...

marmight• 5 years ago

Some of the words Apple filters in China include 人权 (human rights), 正法 (dharma), 達賴 (Dalai [Lama]), 新聞自由 (Freedom of the press), and 艾未未 (Ai Weiwei [an artist and political dissident]). [1] There is no equivalent to these kinds of words in the US filter.

[1] https://citizenlab.ca/2021/08/engrave-danger-an-analysis-of-...

Apple censors engraving service, report claims

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