Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/565860-coming-soon-americas-own-social-credit-system

by Tycho • 5 years ago

38 63 5 years ago

dolni7• 5 years ago

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Leftist politics suggest that criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society. But do something completely legal that I don't like, and you're cancelled forever.

tenebrisalietum• 5 years ago

There is likely a substantial part of that cohort that would like to change that to make racist speech be explicity illegal.

ladyattis7• 5 years ago

You all keep calling things being cancelled when they're just plain old social ostracism of the past. Why can't you all just admit you don't like it when someone else does the social ostracizing instead of giving it a new fancy word to distance yourselves from the same behavior you all do?

throw37388• 5 years ago

Ostracism was democratic process, there was a vote and majority decided. "Cancellation" is nothing like that.

timw4mail2• 5 years ago

Viral ostracism is quite different from the local-scale shunning of the past. Having a torrent of people shunning you for someone disagreeing with you is unjust.

dolni7• 5 years ago

Should I take this comment to mean that you are not against the sort of blackballing that happens to people with criminal histories? I mean, it's just social ostracism, right? Why would we have a problem with people not being able to find a place to live or work?

throwaway8943452• 5 years ago

Concerted campaigns to discredit someone for mundane “offenses” (which are well within the overton window) especially by coercing employers to terminate the target is not “plain social ostracism” and indeed the people who engaged in this in the past were themselves socially ostracized for their bad behavior.

To be clear, we’re talking about signing a letter endorsing free-speech ideals or Tweeting research on the efficacy of non-violent protest or saying a Chinese word that sounds vaguely like a racial slur.

Further, the term “cancelled” is not a term that the critics of cancel culture invented, but rather it was invented by the early participants of cancel culture.

It seems so obvious that cancel culture and social ostracism are different things that I don’t understand how anyone could confuse them in good faith.

darksaints• 5 years ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

muststopmyths• 5 years ago

The irony is so thick, it is palpable. Rightist politics suggest that criminals should be locked away and have their right to reintegrate into society stripped when they are let out. But if there are social consequences to my actions, it's because of cancel culture.

oxymoran• 5 years ago

As an independent, I am horrified by the behavior of both leftists and rightists. You all have lost your damn mind.

happytoexplain5• 5 years ago

You're asserting that those two things are ironic/opposite/hypocritical, but you haven't explained why. Legal consequences and social consequences can't serve the same seat in an analogy without some serious explanation.

dolni7• 5 years ago

They're both social consequences. Criminals who have served their time and are released often have a lot of trouble finding work or renting because of their criminal history. Liberal people often decry this as unjust.

So now we're looking at doing the same thing, but to people who have never been given any sort of due process. And somehow _that_ is okay?

petermcneeley• 5 years ago

"criminals should have a second chance and be able to reintegrate into society"

Is this not part of the definition of justice? Most crimes (high and low) only required some form of punishment and perhaps reform. After the balance has been restored why wouldnt those people fully reintegrate?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice

ladyattis7• 5 years ago

The funny thing is that those who keep calling social ostracism cancel culture would probably be opposed to any kind of reintegration of people who have served their time. How many of them would praise George Zimmer's position of giving ex-cons a second chance at employment? I ask this in a rhetorical fashion obviously but it's important since cancel culture or social ostracism is as old as humankind. So in my view, the real problem isn't cancel culture, the problem is that we don't actually have a society that forgives. The Internet just put all that within reach of our fingertips. In the past, it was only the rich or powerful that could wield such control of in/out group action. Today, anyone can game trending algorithms on social media even though our laws have yet to catch up to that fact.

If there's anything that can be said it's this: our society needs to stop being vengeful, starting with our legal system. We need to repeal at-will employment or at least reform it. We need to actually support re-integration of ex-convicts as a side issue. And we need to stop being so chronically online.

dolni7• 5 years ago

I didn't say criminals being able to reintegrate was a bad thing. I'm simply pointing out the apparent double-think here.

pupppet• 5 years ago

The only reason a site originally intended to share photos can ‘cancel’ anyone is because right wing politics allow these companies to grow out of control.

TameAntelope4• 5 years ago

I'm excited for accountability to catch up to the Internet, for far too long people have been able to poison the well. Now, when you say something, you have to stand by it.

This is a good thing, and I hope more things like this come soon.

saba2008• 5 years ago

"say something, you have to stand by it." is great when it's against people you don't like.

Just don't complain when it comes after you.

Grakel• 5 years ago

Employers and social police be aware that TameAntelope has stated in previous comments: "I'm actually pretty terrible at learning new things." Don't expect him to learn new social rules or new skills very easily. Low social credit points here.

itsyaboi• 5 years ago

-10 to TameAntelope's social credit score

They are now below the cutoff point and no longer have access to public transport or certain dining establishments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive_(Black_Mirror)

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-p...

TameAntelope4• 5 years ago

For what it's worth, I would and do say that professionally (I haven't been interviewed in many years), so there's generally no need to make it seem like I wouldn't want some people to know that!

bequanna• 5 years ago

…until the woke mob shifts in a direction you didn’t anticipate and people are calling for your head, asking you to be “accountable” for something you said 10 years ago.

dagw• 5 years ago

Now, when you say something, you have to stand by it.

Honestly why? I've said a lot of things in my youth that I don't stand by any more. Surely there must be room for people to grow and mature.

Bradlinc• 5 years ago

I agree. I said something a couple of weeks ago that I no longer agree with and I am in my 40s. My mind can be changed, I see that as a positive.

TameAntelope4• 5 years ago

Of course, I completely agree. I don't see how what I wrote contradicts that.

TigeriusKirk• 5 years ago

Why do you not use your real name to post this?

TameAntelope4• 5 years ago

Because I'd like to advocate for a world I want to live in without pretending I already live in that world.

I don't want to hide behind anonymity, but that's how society is currently structured, and if I don't, there are still levers assholes can (and have) pull (ed) to make my life harder. If everyone were accountable, and not just me, that better world would be possible.

Yurtle22• 5 years ago

I'm excited for accountability to catch up to the Internet, for far too long people have been able to poison the well. Now, when you say something, you have to stand by it.

The fact that you aren't using your real name here is a source of real amusement. Thanks for the laugh with my morning coffee.

goatmeal• 5 years ago

what's your name, what town do you live in, and who is your employer?

MeinBlutIstBlau5• 5 years ago

So what happens to a persons social credit when they prepped for this situation, and then when their score tanked then go and perform a mass shooting at the building of the people who score them?

This creates a system of people who numerically can identify they have absolutely nothing left to lose.

bserge• 5 years ago

Next, couple it with more taxes that everyone must pay or your score is ruined (kinda like not paying the broadcasting fee or public transport fares in Germany) and you've got yourself a gravy train. What are they gonna do, shoot you?

wycy• 5 years ago

FYI, you're already supposed to pay all your taxes, and not doing so is already a crime.

jschwartzi• 5 years ago

Slippery slope is often a logical fallacy.

literallyaduck2• 5 years ago

Strange game. The only way to win is not to play. Post something today that is acceptable and the powers that be decide tomorrow that it is offensive and your life is ruined.

MeinBlutIstBlau5• 5 years ago

The true irony is this type of behavior is what drives people to be even more conservative. Why be open or have fun (even if it's krass at the time, naively unaware it could be bad in the future). So now people who aren't bleeding hearts will more than likely only post content that is generic. Then all the bleeding hearts will complain nobody is willing to stand up for justice when these very people are the same ones that incite witch hunts for minor offenses.

literallyaduck2• 5 years ago

That will end up killing the platform. No one wants a feed of gray rocks and witch hunting.

Yurtle22• 5 years ago

This doesn't seem avoidable to me.

At some point, we all have to make a decision whether to buy into the brave new world or to separate from it.

I guess that's the real value of Trump. It was essentially an unremarkable Presidency but a whole lot of cards got turned face up.

helen___keller• 5 years ago

Amazing that you can write an article like this and not even discuss antitrust, opting instead to hand-wring over leftist politics and free speech.

A handful of mega-corporations have essentially complete control over the average person's ability to navigate modern life? Clearly the issue is cancel culture (or is it socialism? or leftism in general? the article isn't really clear what we should be pushing back against)

iso1631• 5 years ago

Digging through the rhetoric, it seems they're complaining that companies are exercising their freedom of association to not associate with people who storm congress?

Coming soon: America’s own social credit system

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