Ask HN: Dealing with Burnout

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2743375

by dlikhten • 15 years ago

8 9 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi, I have been dealing with the issue of programmer burnout for the last few weeks. The problem is that I cannot just stop working for a week or so.

I think its affecting my productivity on all areas and am looking to make adjustments in my life to help cope with the burnout, at least while there is so much work to do.

Things competing for my time: full time job, part-time work as a co-founder, wife + kid, physical exercise, friends, sanity.

rick888• 15 years ago

This is the problem with working on a startup while you are working a full-time job...you are essentially working all the time.

I can't imagine having a wife+kid to deal with too.

This is why I quit my main job to pursue my startup (with a year of savings). I now have time for my friends and personal life and can work on my own company.

I know it may not be possible in your position, but this is what you eventually need to do.

dlikhten3• 15 years ago

no question, this can't be sustained for long periods of time. The goal is usually get funding and work on the startup, but for now that's not the case.

joshuahays2• 15 years ago

I completely understand your struggle. I'm working on our startup with two other team members. We're all in our mid-twenty's, two of us married, one of us with a kid, working full-time (sometimes more-than-full-time jobs).

We've been doing it for a year, and as much as we continue to push, we just don't seem to have time for anything. Our finances have taken a hit, our personal lives have taken a hit... sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel and sometimes it feels like we're just building until someone notices.

The only thing I can tell you is that the harder you work now, the better you're life will be and the more fulfilled it will be later. Remember: entrepreneurs work 16+ hour/day jobs to avoid working 8 hour/day jobs for someone else. Keep your head up!

dlikhten3• 15 years ago

You are not kidding there. Good to hear others are in the same boat. Definitely helps knowing people trying to deal with this as well.

joshuahays2• 15 years ago

No problem!

jarrettcoggin• 15 years ago

I had a similar situation while I was at a university. I was taking extra classes, trying to work a part time job as close to 40 hours a week as I could to pay the bills, interviewing, and a significant other. I did this for about a year before it all came crashing down. When it did come crashing down, I was apathetic for about a month. I bombed out of classes, almost got fired from my job, and the SO stopped seeing me for a while.

My biggest suggestion is to find something that lets you blow off a lot of steam/release a lot of stress in a short amount of time. For some people it's sports or boxing or whatever. For others, it's partying. Whatever it is, it has to be something you do alone, away from everything else. When you do this activity, it has to be your full focus. You can't think about the startup or the job or anything else.

I didn't figure out what this release would be for me until I had graduated and was working. It turned out to be lifting weights and just fatiguing my body until I pretty much couldn't walk. I tried to do this before everyone else woke up so there was no one there to grab my time. I did my best to make it to the gym 3-4 times a week at 6am-7am. There were plenty of days I aimed to be in the office at 8:30, but I would be so exhausted that I would need to nap for 15-20 minutes. I still made it a point to get in by 9am.

My three requirements for something like this is:

1. It has to be physical. 2. You have to be alone. No one interrupts this sacred time. 3. Whatever it is, put more than 110% effort into it. Make sure you are putting everything you got into it and that you aren't spending any energy thinking about something else.

On the other side of this coin, you need to talk to someone about it. Let them know what's going on and that you need someone to vent to. The worst thing you could possibly do is bottle it up.

This is what works for me, but at the same time, your mileage may vary.

dlikhten3• 15 years ago

Thanks! I actually just started hardcore biking. It does help. I'll keep this in mind. Biking fast = physical excersise which helps with the physical fatigue, and having to pay attention means that you can't think about other things. Also the more effort you put in the more you think about muscle movements and not about random thoughts (like those about work).

I actually used to play games, but they caused the same problems as working, too much mental engagement. I don't recommend video games as a form of stress release.

gogogadgetlegz• 15 years ago

Step 1: Simplify - do less

Step 2: Build your foundation to decrease cortisol (it destroys your brain and makes you stupid):

- Eat Primal/Paleo (marksdailyapple.com)

- If you do chronic cardio or crossfit, ditch it and lift heavy (low reps) and sprint instead just a few times a week.

- Say "fuck it" more and don't attach your sense of self to your results. As much as you can, treat things like playful practice rather than do-or-die. The book, "The Practicing Mind" is a great short read on this.

Step 3: If all else fails, take an epic road trip to re-understand who you are without defining yourself by what you do.

Step 4: Get enlightened. Its another project, so best done when you have a bit of breathing room. kennethfolkdharma.com is a great resource.

thorie• 15 years ago

I don't understand why people choose to have so many things competing for their time, and then talk about "burnout". Of course you will be burned out.

I could be trying to go to college, work full-time, have 6 kids, train to be an olympic athlete, learn to be a master of 26 different musical instruments, write 16 novels in parallel, and then say: "I'm feeling burnt out".

The real problem isn't being burned out. The real problem is why you think you can do all of that and NOT be burned out. Why take on so many things?

I think it comes down to greed. You want it all. But basic economics says that you cannot have it all. If you don't find too many people trying to help you while you're trying to have everything all at once, it's probably because nobody really likes people who are that greedy.

If I was in your situation, I would get rid of my full-time job, get a divorce, make sure the kid goes to the mother with the divorce, stop exercising, get rid of friends who arn't related to my start-up, and forget about sanity. Sanity is for conformers.

It's kind of like a hoarder collecting so much junk that he can't let go of, that the junk weighs him down. You have to prioritize, and live with the necessities. Which is more important to you: your family or your start-up? And can't say both. It would be like saying I want to keep my $20,000 AND get that new Car. Well of course, everyone WANTS both, but that's not how the world works. Nobody WANTS to make sacrifices.

But you have to make sacrifices. Nature will sacrifice something in the end for you, if you don't want to decide. Your health will deteriorate, or your family will be troubled, or the start-up will fail. If you don't choose, something will be chosen at random for you and you probably won't like the result.

I'm not really making any suggestions to you, as your situation has many details I don't know about. But I ask you to at least consider whether or not you are simply desiring too many things and being stubborn about seeing reality.

The most important adjustment to make is to set expectations that allow you to do less.

Ask HN: Dealing with Burnout

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