Ask HN: Convince a programmer to switch over to Mac (from Linux)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2696833

by smokestack • 15 years ago

8 12 15 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Macs seem to have become extremely popular for developers who don't even necessarily develop for Mac, and I'm wondering why. Comparably spec'd notebooks are up to $1000 less than a Macbook. Where's the added value?

I'm in the market for a new laptop, and haven't found any compelling reasons for switching over as a backend web developer. I'm really curious about what I'm missing as a non-Mac developer. Is it just a status purchase?

awaage2• 15 years ago

I was a big linux user that switched to MBP too a couple years ago. I was very skeptical myself, but I'm very happy with the switch. Besides looking cool, here's some other points from my experience: It just works better. Granted, a couple years ago, ubuntu wasn't as nice as it is now, Mac OSX just works so flawlessly, never restart, never shutdown (just close the lid), sleeps and starts up in literally 1 second, great battery, connects to wifi flawlessly, and LOVE the multitouch mouse features. I also really like certain programs including iMovie, Logic (music production), Photoshop. I've tried switching to Gimp, for example, which just doesn't feel right to an old-time Photoshop user. On Ubuntu, I was pretty happy with overall experience, and if I was ONLY using it for development, it would be just fine. I would recommend Mac to any developer, but if you are already very comfortable with your Linux laptop, you're probably not missing anything THAT compelling. BTW, I got my mbp for about $1300 and would not think it's worth it for much more than that.

smokestack2• 15 years ago

Thanks. I like Macs exactly for the reasons you listed -- battery life is awesome, great touchpad, great boot/wake-up times, and the box is undeniably beautiful. I just found OSX's window management really clunky and unintuitive, but that's coming from a 15-year linux/windows user.

Is your MBP a 15"? How did you find one for $1300?

awaage2• 15 years ago

I have the 13", and I would strongly recommend this if you plan to be taking it around a lot. It's the perfect size / weight for me, and I don't think twice about bringing it around. In regards to the window management, I have to agree. It took a while to get used to, but now that I'm used to it, it's no problem. It's really just what you're accustomed to. Another note is that Mac devs love TextMate, but I've always just used VIM, so Mac is no better to me in this category!

noduerme• 15 years ago

Truthfully, if I didn't have to do a lot of graphics work as well, I wouldn't use a Mac. But being able to dive from Eclipse into Illustrator>Photoshop>After Effects, then into the terminal, sftp, ssh, remote mysql and dive back into Safari/FF/Chromium to test it, is very useful for my workflow as an all-in-one freelancer. I certainly wouldn't be able to use Windows for it. I could use Ubuntu, but would suffer on the graphic design front, especially dealing with motion and typography. If I didn't have the added design requirements, I'd probable just use some linux flavor. As it is, alone, the hardware/software combo isn't worth it if you're just coding.

If someone is just developing, not designing, then no reason to go OS X. If design and dev are tightly bound in the workflow, then it's the only good solution right now.

smokestack2• 15 years ago

I definitely understand the Photoshop argument in favor of Macs. I just can't get used to GIMP, but luckily I don't need to do a whole lot of graphics work.

I've heard people talking about the software, overall, being better for programmers, but with no specific examples or comparisons to similar tools on nix/windows. I'm assuming you haven't seen a big difference either if you're using Eclipse primarily.

alexforget• 15 years ago

I was a long time linux user too. I switched for the quality of the hardware and because I was tired of fighting poor hardware support.

For me a Mac is a much better experience, you focus on your work, the hardware/OS just work. No more fighting with XF86Config, broken wireless driver, and a hardware market focused on bringing the cost low instead of improving quality. If you look at how much time you spend on a computer, the cost is not the most important factor. When I get back to a pc, it always hit me how much the quality is inferior, but then I think about the cost pressure to sell a laptop at 400$ and I undersand.

What I don't like on Mac, is that I feel as a just another follower of a cult, yes the look is good but I think I would prefer a less flashy brand.

auganov• 15 years ago

Don't over-think it. Unless there's some particular thing that only a certain operating system can run/do then there's really not much difference. People just have that inherent need to rationalize everything they do, so they will be saying how they're using this or that system because it's faster, more stable or whatever else. When in fact the biggest reason is that simply they are used to it.

I'm a Windows guy and couldn't care less to switch. I don't know where those crazy stories of Windows crashing everyday etc. come from. An OS just like all the rest, if you have to actively look for a reason to switch then there's probably none.

But still sometimes perhaps it's nice to just change the environment. Makes life more interesting.

sixtofour• 15 years ago

My uninformed impression, never having owned an Apple product:

They're expensive, they crease your wrists, and the risk of some physical defect is great enough to be infuriating when they're so known for design and so expensive.

(They also look like shit after they're a few years old, based on my team mates units, but maybe that's from expecting them to be shiny MOMA-worthy objects.)

For playing well with the other team mates: Mac users have always been on different versions of Office than the rest of teams' members that I've been with, different enough that it causes unnecessary friction while trying to figure it out.

As a non-Mac developer: them are some expensive terminal windows.

As a ..nix developer: the ports (?) system, and its brethren/competitors, always seem to have different/old versions of software. The saving grace being that it does have those expensive terminal windows.

tl;dr: Harumph!

fmw• 15 years ago

Background: I've been using different flavors of GNU/Linux since 1999, but switched to Mac OS X in 2004 because I fell for the "Apple experience" and felt like I was spending too much time tinkering with drivers and so forth, while Mac OS X "just works". I've just switched my main work machine back to GNU/Linux (Ubuntu with Xmonad).

Hardware: I've bought quite a lot of machines from Apple (also for my business and family members) and while there have been some problems too, the experience has been great. Apple makes durable products, with metal and glass where their competitors use plastic. The durability of the casing should be a factor when buying a laptop, especially if you're going to be using it professionally. Can anyone recommend a similar product from one of Apple's competitors? I'd like to make the switch on the hardware level as well, but not at the cost of quality, durability and design.

Software: it just works, so you don't have to spend any time on configuration and customization. The operating system itself is quite nice to work with. I don't have any complaints there, although new users will probably need some time to get used to the idiosyncrasies. GNU/Linux has some practical advantages as a software developer, like better package management through things like pacman and apt-get, but you'll find that Mac OS X is quite adequate as a platform. The developer community on Mac OS X is quite productive when it comes to making tools, Mac-related screencast and blog posts, so you'll find a healthy ecosystem as a developer. A lot of games and professional applications that don't natively run on GNU/Linux are also available on Mac.

Some of the reasons I'm moving away from Mac OS X, however, are the lock-in, DRM and the closed mentality of the company. They suck developers into a closed ecosystem, by luring them in with the large audience they control on their mobile platform. The word "control" is chosen on purpose here, because that is what it feels like as an Apple user (less so on the desktop, but the non-mobile stuff is moving into that direction too, with the App Store).

So why am I switching back to GNU/Linux?

- I wanted to try a tiling window manager (I'm very happy with XMonad so far),

- my needs have changed (I hardly use GUI applications anymore; apart from browsers),

- I'm unhappy with the focus on the mobile platform and the influence it has on the desktop platform (e.g. App Store),

- I don't like how Apple restricts developers and recently started charging for XCode (pragmatically this isn't really a major issue, but it bugs me nonetheless),

- I find some of their business practices quite unpleasant (e.g. how they deal with warranty in certain situations and the well publicized App Store shenanigans),

- I don't want to be locked in anymore,

- I prefer the GNU/Linux philosophy of openness and being able to tinker with the software I run on my computer,

- et cetera.

I'm very ambiguous towards Apple. I think they make great products, but I dislike the closed environment and some of the business decisions they have made. I've felt like that for a couple of years now, but the otherwise pleasant experience has kept me from switching until recently. If you don't mind supporting the company I would recommend buying an Apple laptop, because you can always install a GNU/Linux distribution if you're disappointed with Mac OS X. Ethics and philosophy aside, they have the best offering for regular consumers and most professional users. As a developer it depends on your preferences, but since Mac hardware can run all popular operating systems it won't be a bad investment if only for the quality of the hardware.

Personally, I'm not planning on buying any new desktop computers from Apple, but next time I'm in the market for a laptop I might still buy a Mac (running GNU/Linux) if I can't find a PC laptop with the same physical and esthetic quality.

veyron• 15 years ago

with regards to the issue of charging for xcode: xcode 3 is still free :)

The business decision that should scare you the most was the killing of the xserve line. Don't try to run a business production platform on a mac.

whichdan• 15 years ago

The multitouch trackpad is probably the best non-keyboard input device I've ever used - coming from someone who's used a Dell trackpad, Thinkpad trackpad + trackpoint, multi-button mouse, single-button mouse (which would be the worst non-keyboard input device I've used :), and, for many years, a trackball.

The screen (15" anti-glare 1680x1050) is also much nicer than many other laptops I've used, the build quality is superb, and I like being able to stop in an Apple store to get something fixed. With Dell, they sent someone out next business day to fix an issue I had, but Lenovo made me mail in my entire laptop, leaving me without my primary computer for the better part of a week.

Also, Linux virtualization works amazingly well on a Mac. I installed Ubuntu using Parallels, and set it fullscreen to my second desktop, so clicking Cmd+1 and Cmd+2 seamlessly shifts between Linux and Mac. It's really, really cool.

askar• 15 years ago

I still don't know why but I get more things done using my MacBook for few hours in the evening than with a Windows machine the whole daytime...again, don't ask me why, but that's the reality and I'm happy for that.

Ask HN: Convince a programmer to switch over to Mac (from Linux)

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