The Smalltalk Zoo

https://smalltalkzoo.thechm.org/

by gjvc • 6 years ago

78 19 6 years ago

smalltalkzoo.thechm.org

sblom• 6 years ago

It has always fascinated me that Smalltalk nearly universally comes with a window system and self-editing run-time.

I remember Sun's "Lively Kernel" project. It looks like this has some of that DNA in it. I can't claim to have ever bent my brain to quite grok Smalltalk-and-attendant-tools, but I definitely appreciate its contribution to our software heritage and see traces of it all around, especially in the NeXT/Apple ecosystem.

gjvc2• 6 years ago

This is very much powered by the lively kernel. Dan H. H. Ingalls, the main programmer of Smalltalk-72, created The Lively Kernel and the Smalltalk Zoo site. It's great to see him continue his work.

I think that Lively Kernel has huge potential to influence the current web. When you consider something like how this site (HN) operates, and could be implemented using something like the LK, perhaps we can start programming interactive systems better than we do.

Note that the Lively Kernel dates from 2007 (!) -- development continues to be supported by the Hasso-Plattner institute in Potsdam, Germany. https://lively-next.org/

igouy• 6 years ago

"Dan Ingalls on the History of Smalltalk and the Lively Kernel"

https://www.infoq.com/interviews/ingalls-smalltalk/

fctorial2• 6 years ago

So does javascript. It's just that js is too mainstream, and a lot more practical.

remexre• 6 years ago

I've never seen Smalltalk-style self-editing in a JavaScript framework; is there a specific one you're referring to? Or just the fact that it has eval()?

fniephaus• 6 years ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25461760

dang2• 6 years ago

Normally that would make us mark this one as a dupe, but the posts are subtly different enough, and the material so interesting, that maybe we can leave this one up. Hopefully people will investigate the actual contents of said zoo and comment on those, rather than just generically about Smalltalk.

mumblemumble3• 6 years ago

The Smalltalk-72 emulator is particularly fascinating. Both to be seeing what they had accomplished 48 years ago, and to think that they've got a decent emulation of it running in the browser.

Haven't actually made it very far in, just due to learning curve. So many UI conventions that we take for granted nowadays but that didn't exist at the dawn of the GUI. Typing \ rather than pressing the return key to evaluate expressions on the REPL, for example.

DanielIngalls2• 6 years ago

Yes, that's certainly confusing. I'd like to be able to offer a popup keyboard that makes it all clear.

The Alto had line-feed at the top-right, and we used LF for our do-it character. "\" is in the upper-right and not otherwise used in St-72 so i chose it. I'll work on some better visible support. Thanks!

DanielIngalls2• 6 years ago

The Zoo is in its infancy. I hope to add a bunch of things, fix a bunch of things, and explain everything better. I appreciate all comments and suggestions, and will do my best to respond. - Dan

dang2• 6 years ago

Please do! and if you reach a point in the future where you feel like it's ready for another public discussion, we'd be delighted to support that—emailing hn@ycombinator.com is the best way to let us know. This stuff is eternally cool as far as we're concerned.

(Edit: the parent was originally a reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25755267 but that's kind of buried lower down, so I detached it.)

gjvc2• 6 years ago

"This stuff is eternally cool as far as we're concerned" :-)

travisgriggs• 6 years ago

Goes into never ending radial 5 loading for me, both Safari and Brave on an iPhone. :(

HN Hug of Death? Or browser comparability? Anyone know?

Dan Ingalls is one of my heroes. I got to spend a day with a small group including him in Argentina after a conference a few years ago. One of the nicest and most gracious individuals I have met.

The worst thing about Smalltalk is if you really got into it, you spend the rest of your programming career asking "why? Why did these other systems have to make this so hard?"

skissane• 6 years ago

HN Hug of Death? Or browser comparability? Anyone know?

I think it is a browser compatibility issue. Chrome on macOS works fine for me. But Safari on my iPhone, same symptoms as you are having, and then eventually the screen fills up with errors like "Lively system startup aborted because a critical error occurred:"

scroot• 6 years ago

It doesn't seem to be directly linked from the front page, but the zoo also contains the issues of SqueakNews, an e-zine published in Squeak in the early 2000s. There is a web player for them, too:

https://smalltalkzoo.computerhistory.org/SqueakNews/index.ht...

The Smalltalk Zoo

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