Tell HN: HN Karma Being Exploited

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25323282

by greenkey • 6 years ago

2 6 6 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I just happened to look at the top comments on a front-page HN post and noticed the following:

The comment at the top had posted 0 minutes ago and already had the top post in a substantial list of comments, and their comment wasn’t that great. Their user was created 88 days ago, had 235 karma, mostly from recent 2 submissions that each went frontpage and each got a lot of points.

The second in the list had 135 karma and has been a user for 4 months, with frontpage hits periodically on submission.

The third comment was from a user created 8 years ago that is fairly active.

I’m not trying to show how HN karma is being exploited, but this rang alarm bells for me.

forgotmypw17• 6 years ago

How do you look at top comments?

gjvc• 6 years ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/best

kkoncevicius• 6 years ago

I think HN temporarily brings newest posts at the front so that someone who checks for new replies can quickly find them on the top. After a while they are moved to the bottom. I am not sure on the exact mechanism behind this but observed it multiple times. So the "posted 0 minutes ago" part in your observation is telling.

gus_massa• 6 years ago

I agree. The order of the post in the front page is something like upvotes/(time in hours + 1)^1.6, where the number 1.6 changes from time to time without warning. Assume it is something between 1.5 and 2.

One upon a time, the order of the comments used the same algorithm. It is not clear how they are ordered now, but I assume that it is something similar.

Both orders are also affected by penalties, a lot of penalties. Some are automatic, like some keywords, or domains, or if a post has much more comments than upvotes. Some are added manually by the mods (or removed). Some are added if too many people flag the post. Just assume that there are a lot of penalties.

thinkingemote• 6 years ago

What's the issue?

What is being exploited? your explanation probably implies something but you should spell out actual exploits.

To me, I don't see any exploit.

Pick-A-Hill2019• 6 years ago

I would suggest that things like this are best e-mailed directly to the HN moderators (hn@ycombinator.com). If their response still seems 'off' then ....

I'm not saying that there isn't any manipulation of karma and submission votes (it happens, or at the very least people try to game the system). I think even dang would admit that their filters pick up stuff from time to time which indicates that at the very least some do try to game the system. I also think most would agree that when it comes to detection algorithms that you don't catch every fish that swims through the net - i.e. no system is perfect.

With that said - I'm not a HN moderator so this is purely some random internet stranger spouting words on a screen.

However - Your post risks being flagged by someone for being Off-Topic. Because HN doesn't allow the person flagging a submission or comment to provide a reason for flagging, all that you would see would be your post being flagged and perhaps assuming that it was an attempt to suppress/censor/hide your post - Which might lead you to assume via confirmation bias that there is indeed a 'voting ring' in play.

With all of that said - there are certain subreddits where HN submissions and comments are actively discussed so I don’t think any reasonable person would state that it didn’t happen (or at the very least is attempted) so if you think you have spotted something then the best (and fastest) way to get it looked in to is to email the Mods (based on personal experience).

Btw, welcome to HN and congrats on reaching 48 karma points in 20 days. It took me a few months to get to that. (Said so that it isn’t read as being a ‘sarky’ welcome to HN tone).

Tell HN: HN Karma Being Exploited

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