Leaders focus on doing the right thing, managers focus on doing things right

https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/1323679565533925376

by tosh • 6 years ago

50 13 6 years ago

youeseh2• 6 years ago

Given enough information, doing the right thing and doing things right converge.

It’s less about having enough information and more about having leaders who have established reasonable constraints and incentives. Organizations get into trouble when doing the right thing runs counter to (intentional or accidental) incentive structures. The point of the tweet is that leaders find a way to do the right thing anyway.

youeseh2• 6 years ago

Thats just, like, your opinion, maan :p. Kidding aside, I don't think our interpretations disagree.

austincheney• 6 years ago

I completely disagree.

First of all most of us can’t predict the future. Decisions still require execution in the meantime. Waiting for increased confidence can result in lost opportunities.

Secondly, doing things right and doing the right thing imply completely different scenarios. For most people doing things right is often a matter of selection bias resulting in something popular at the center of a bell curve. That is sacrificing greatness for safety. Doing the right things is a matter of greatness. It is a matter of achieving the best outcome from a given opportunity as viewed in hind sight.

amdelamar• 6 years ago

I prefer the original quote as it doesn't imply any leader/manager stereotype.

"Efficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing the right things." ~ Peter Drucker

sillysaurusx• 6 years ago

Empty platitudes. I wonder why people find them so comforting or interesting.

I like a good quote too, but there’s not much substance here. “Doing the right things”? Everyone feels they’re doing the right things, generally. In fact it’s very difficult to convince anyone to do anything differently.

In fact, to analyze this a bit deeper, what’s the point of the quote at all? Doing the right things is completely separable from doing things right. It’s like pointing out that the sun is warm and oceans are blue. It just doesn’t feel like there’s anything here.

I bet some number of people on HN work in adtech, and that a different number feel they’re doing the wrong thing. What’s the takeaway?

ALittleLight• 6 years ago

I think the idea is that "Doing things right" is doing things the way they are supposed to be done. I think of the HBO show Rome where Pompey is moaning to other characters about how all his actions in battle were "perfectly correct" and he couldn't believe he had been defeated despite what was perfectly correct.

Managers, nominal leaders, in other words, focus on doing what they perceive they are supposed to do. Contrast that with true leaders who focus on doing what actually matters - i.e. the right things.

If you are interested in results, you have to pursue what actually matters and not just what conventional wisdom says, or what people say. You also have to be willing to risk "doing things wrong".

Maybe that's a platitude. Maybe it's a useful heuristic for some people to ask "Am I trying to do the right thing, or am I trying to do things right?" Probably depends on what your prior beliefs and attitudes are.

Lipsey• 6 years ago

Doing the right things === What we are doing;

Doing things right === How we are doing what we are doing

bumby• 6 years ago

Everyone feels they’re doing the right things

In addition to what others have said, I don’t think this is true enough to be a generalization. I’m reminded of a radio conversation with a derivatives trader after the financial crisis over a decade ago. They said they knew what they were doing was wrong (in the sense of being shoddy and unsustainable) but that it wasn’t worth the risk of sticking their head up to sound the alarm. It’s much safer to just try to ride the wave with everyone else.

Likewise I’ve worked with plenty who knowingly kept along the easy path when they knew it wasn’t the best for the organization. But it was easy and safe. Instead of following the cliche “nobody ever got fired for hiring IBM” they would have been a better leader if they followed the military aphorism of “taking the harder right” decision.

senux• 6 years ago

I like a good quote too, but there’s not much substance here. [...]

I agree with you here, there's no substance to this kind of thought process. It's too generic and, ultimately, self-validating since one can't ensure what one does is leadership worthy since there isn't a final definition for what that means.

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Some have already mentioned it but the quote seems to make an unfortunate use of the word "right" which leaves a lot of room for interpretation. That might even be the reason people find it appealing.

alexashka• 6 years ago

What a nice way of saying most managers are useless :)

chmod775• 6 years ago

Most managers have no clue about what I'm doing, about best practices, how to break down a task, etc. That is left to the people who actually know the job. There's no way they could make sure something is done "right" - besides checking that the final product fulfills the requirements.

From my perspective a manager's job is to enable me to do my job, get me the things I need, when I need them, and act as a shield between myself and people who want to waste my time - by attending meetings with leadership and customers.

And if they did that, I would call them a great manager.

However if they waste my time with endless meetings, where I need to explain technical things they lack the foundational knowledge to understand, because they want to exercise close control over the process to make sure it's done "right", then they're killing my productivity and are a terrible manager.

lol636363• 6 years ago

It seems most managers just want a thing done. It is really engineers who do the thing right.

Leaders focus on doing the right thing, managers focus on doing things right

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