Stratix V accelerator card from eBay

https://j-marjanovic.io/stratix-v-accelerator-card-from-ebay.html

by todsacerdoti • 6 years ago

75 27 6 years ago

moyix2• 6 years ago

Is it possible to "read out" whatever logic the FPGA was previously programmed with? If the speculation that it came from the Bing accelerator is correct, you might end up with some interesting code...

monocasa• 6 years ago

It's in that 256Mb config flash, but it's probably encrypted with a key inside the FPGA.

fake-name• 6 years ago

The bitstream that's loaded into the FPGA is very, very far from anything that would look like normal code. Additionally, all major commercial FPGAs have complex facilities for encrypting the bitstream that completely hides it's contents.

So it may be possible, but the architecture of the FPGA is not documented, so you'd have to completely reverse engineer the bitstream format, and if the protection is enabled, that'd still get you nowhere.

moyix2• 6 years ago

That's true, but there have been attempts to mount attacks on the encryption used in older Stratix:

Stratix II: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.58...

There's been a little work on vulnerabilities in the Stratix V, though AFAICT no break on the encryption: http://www.ecs.umass.edu/ece/tessier/ramesh-fccm18.pdf

And aside from the encryption there's been a lot of work on FPGA bitstream reverse engineering tools, so the output wouldn't be meaningless—it would just take some effort to figure out what it's doing.

mhh__• 6 years ago

The bitstream isn't always secured, and when it is it's not the deepest security, but unless you either have a lot of time or a brilliant insight you probably aren't going to get too far with a raw bitstream.

kencausey• 6 years ago

At this moment there are 3 more entries on this board which can be found at the home page: https://j-marjanovic.io/

vmception2• 6 years ago

I bought few a cheap Stratix V's from eBay too.

Useless. The drivers are horrible and the state of the tooling is insanely bad. The vendors have no clue, Intel personnel have no clue as they don't care about OpenCL 2.0 but will still gladly charge $10,000 in licenses if you really want to go that route. Verilog/VHDL is wtf, and you still need to redo your drivers.

So much potential.

I talked to a couple companies that use these in production, they reveal that they wrote their own drivers and still have issues.

You pretty much have to be a Microsoft doing sci-fi tech to get the benefits out of these, and it doesn't have to be that way.

Rebelgecko• 6 years ago

TBH that situation doesn't sound too different from most FPGA tooling

vmception2• 6 years ago

oh its not, I've heard the exact same thing from Xilinx users. The whole space is ridiculously bad and undermaintained while simultaneously having come a long way. I'm probably not the first person over the last 35 years to say this, but they are right at the cusp of a big breakthrough in utility.

OpenCL was a nice try but everyone did their own thing with it and are now going back to their own vendor specific frameworks. No leadership, irreconcilable business decisions, unnecessarily crippling an open source community, software licenses are too expensive probably because they can't mass monetize the FPGAs. Its just really bad, it doesn't seem like it belongs in this century.

orbifold• 6 years ago

Doing new drivers is not a huge deal. At least you are programming them in C with sane tooling against a sane API. Getting up a simple setup with a bit of DMA and a few registers is not that hard. It pales compared to the amount of pain you will go through working with the FPGA tooling. The insanity begins with the fact that they are very GUI centric with comparatively little guidance on batch processing capabilities. This is despite the fact that you usually run these tools on ~80 core servers, so you have nicely lagging X11 windows all day

oneplane• 6 years ago

It seems to be the device used by Microsoft in their 1k+ server trials? Or perhaps the next revision beyond that.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2014/0...

justinclift• 6 years ago

This is part 1 of a series of posts about the card. The follow on posts (so far) are:

https://j-marjanovic.io/stratix-v-accelerator-card-from-ebay...

eqvinox• 6 years ago

Plugging in a QSFP cable only marginally increases the power consumption.

Most QSFP DAC cables are passive and do not use power for anything other than their ID EEPROM.

metaphor• 6 years ago

If you don't already have the sort of corporate hookup that the author has (R&S test gear on an ESD mat smells pretty telltale), then plan on throwing down at least another US$3K for a Quartus Prime Standard[1][2] license to PNR this target for shits and grins.

[1] https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdf...

[2] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/programmable/buy/des...

mng2• 6 years ago

This is a pretty awesome FPGA for the price but the tool licenses are a few $K if you want to stay strictly legal. For Xilinx you can actually rent a full Vivado tool AMI on AWS, but I'm not aware of any similar offering for Quartus.

debbiedowner2• 6 years ago

What is the purpose of this card? I'm familiar with using GPUs and even TPUs for some task specific acceleration but what's the point of a chip like this? Does this speed up arbitrary C code? I understand that an FPGA is in the middle of the CPU - ASIC spectrum, but what are the potential speedups for various types of code?

ganzuul• 6 years ago

Shuffles lots of bits in parallel, low latency.

nitrogen• 6 years ago

E.g. for FPGAs in general: multiplexing I/O, such as audio hardware managing hundreds of channels of digital audio for a theme park parade PA system over several different busses including Ethernet.

sgtnoodle2• 6 years ago

An FPGA can be thought of as programmable hardware. An FPGA chip has many many thousands of very flexible logic blocks, and a matrix of interconnects to connect those logic blocks together arbitrarily. Software tools allow you to describe a complex digital circuit, and the design is compiled down into a bitstream that configures the FPGA's blocks and interconnects to implement the circuit. In addition to internal connections, the circuits can be connected to external IO pins.

The logic blocks and interconnects are relatively slow compared to a tailor made ASIC, but they're still generally capable of propagating signals approaching GHz clock rates.

As an example, with a really nice CPU you might be able to run billions of instructions per second, but you are limited to what those instructions can do. If you want to sum a bunch of integers, you need to do it sequentially by implementing a loop. Maybe you can sum 1 billion integers per second. With an FPGA, you could instead use the available blocks to implement a thousand adders in a logarithmic pyramid, able to sum 500 numbers at once at say 100Mhz, and the circuitry to speak to a CPU and its memory directly over PCI-E. Now, you can sum 50 billion integers per second, assuming the RAM can even keep up.

I can't imagine there's any automatic speed up of C code with this specific card, unless the card maker implemented a really fancy compiler. More likely, there's a specific algorithm that the card was designed to do in parallel faster than a CPU can. Someone had to implement that algorithm in a language that could be compiled down to the FPGA bitstream. On top of that, it's possible the card wasn't even meant to be tightly coupled to a traditional CPU. It's possible that the FPGA was meant to participate directly on a data center network and respond to requests directly. The whole "program" could be implemented as state machines in digital logic, including the TCP/IP stack. Also, "soft" CPUs can be implemented inside an FPGA, making it possible to run traditional programs too.

You can generally use an FPGA to implement any algorithm that's parallelizable to some degree. As a master's project 11 years ago, my team accelerated stereo disparity calculations with an FPGA. The idea is that you match similar pixels between two spatially separated images in order to generate a depth map. It's an expensive calculation. At the time, a CPU could manage a few frames per second from 480p webcam streams. The FPGA version could handle hundreds of frames per second. We couldn't feed it in video fast enough. Of course, nowdays a modern GPU running a shader program might be faster.

debbiedowner2• 6 years ago

Thanks for the detailed response.

I was just about to say: when to use an FPGA over a gpu? There are a few GPU gems books that describe what kind of code runs best on GPUs, and you can buy 30TFlops for $700 these days.

I know gpu is not so good beyond single precision. Is that the application? Do you recommend a similar FPGA gems book/website?

I see there is: designing with xilinx fpgas, design warriors guide to fpgas

fouc• 6 years ago

middle of the CPU-ASIC spectrum? Not sure that's true, bitcoin miners started out on CPU, moved to GPU, and during that period also did some mining with FPGAs before quickly moving to custom ASICs.

lnsru• 6 years ago

I now understand what is a source of cheap high end FPGAs on AliExpress. Though buying complete board does not make much sense, because it lacks the Golden Top project with all pin assignments and clocking constraints. This particular Stratix V has tons of logic elements and on chip memory, but applications are still rather limited for it. I did this before too, was curious how chip for $20k looks like :-)

My advice: get some board from Digilent, they have examples and active support forum. It will be more useful on the long run.

phendrenad2• 6 years ago

There are tons of old FPGA boards on eBay for cheap, but they're basically unusable. Even if it was a popular dev kit at the time, chances are all documentation has 404ed.

Stratix V accelerator card from eBay

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