Judge Protects YouTube’s Source Code, Throws Users To The Wolves

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/03/judge-protects-youtubes-source-code-throws-users-to-the-wolves/

by jasonlbaptiste • 18 years ago

23 21 18 years ago

froo• 18 years ago

Not good.

I understand and respect Viacom's need to protect their copyright, everyone should have the right to be able to profit out of their intellectual property - but this hard hitting approach is over the top.

All this action does is promote a virtual 'arms race' when it comes too copyright violation.

The media companies shut down Napster early on in the game and in the process, opened a pandoras box. Better technologies have emerged with every subsequent shutdown.

At least with Napster they could have contained the problem, but instead are just shooting themselves in the foot.

I guess this is the price they pay for their heavy handed approach.

gizmo• 18 years ago

YouTube's business model:

1. Get venture capital

2. Get popular by distributing copyrighted content on massive scale.

3. Don't remove copyrighted content when asked to by holder.

4. Get more venture capital

5. Attract attention from large copyright holders. Remove their content, but only by explicit request. Know that the same content will be uploaded the day after you remove it.

6. Keep growing by distributing copyrighted content.

7. Get bought for an insane amount by Google

8. Stay a seperate legal entity because uh... you know. The whole business model is shady.

Makes perfect sense to go after the users. After all, they don't have VC money to defend themselves with.

jrockway5• 18 years ago

9. YouTube goes out of business.

10. People pirate TV clips somewhere else.

11. Wait, Google wasn't the problem here.

Makes perfect sense to go after the users. After all, they don't have VC money to defend themselves with.

Considering the FBI didn't get very far prosecuting people who viewed a (fake) child porn site, I doubt millions of people will be sued for perhaps viewing 10 minutes of a TV show. Especially since the TV show was being broadcast through everyone's brains anyway.

goodkarma2• 18 years ago

There is a surprisingly large amount of copyrighted content on YouTube and Google Video.

If I search for something, and find it, and watch it once, am I really the one they should be going after??

After all, Google is the one with the BILLIONS of dollars.. and they are the ones hosting the content to begin with.

Or is this just a case where a big corporation like Viacom is going to try to go after a bunch of nobodys like me because it is easier to scare us with big lawsuits and the threat of owing them hundreds of thousands of dollars.. all because I watched a couple clips of Jon Stewart on YouTube?

jcl3• 18 years ago

I think lawsuits against viewers is purely speculation by TechCrunch. IANAL, but I think pinning a copyright violation on a viewer would be very difficult, because the viewer is in a poor position to know the legality of a given clip -- especially prior to downloading it -- which implies that the uploader, not the downloader, is responsible for any violation. I'd guess this is why to date the RIAA and MPAA have only gone after P2P uploaders and BitTorrent users (where each user is both an uploader and downloader).

Just think... if merely clicking on a link were a copyright violation, Rick Astley would be a billionaire. :)

goodkarma2• 18 years ago

I agree that it is a stretch, but so is chasing down folks that may or may not have downloaded one movie from BitTorrent. http://www.shawnhogan.com/2005/11/loeb-and-loeb-mpaa-extorti...

Obviously the RIAA and MPAA etc. have a hard-on for this kind of thing right now. My hunch is that Viacom is trying to acquire as much data as it can to try to do the same thing.

pavelludiq2• 18 years ago

What about the rest of us who were blessed with not being born in the USA? Should i be worried that some ninja cop will brake in my home and take my pc and sue me for watching youtube? It all sound ridiculous.

jrockway5• 18 years ago

Yes, you should worry. Other countries are gutless followers of whatever the US tells them to do. If we make a law over here, you can bet the US will make you pass a similar law.

pavelludiq2• 18 years ago

Actually they won't make us. Bulgarian politicians are known for being the biggest ass kissers in Europe so we will pass it before the USA just to look obedient. We had some copyright media debates a while ago when the police tried to arrest a few torrent uploaders and there were a lot of protests. A mother on tv said that her 13 year old sun is not a criminal because of the music he "steels" he just likes music and if you get something given to you for free, you don't buy. The result from the whole police action was an embarrassment for the government and a few torrent trackers either moving abroad or shutting down and 99% of the windows copies in Bulgaria are still illegal, and 99% of the music people listen to in their homes is still illegal and i only buy cd's from local bands(directly, that way i know where the money goes)* and i only use open source software(except my non free drivers and my flash plug-in) But im an exception, most people in the world are criminals.

*Yes i do own illegal mp3s, about 4000 of them, and about half of those you cant buy in a store(try finding an Argentinian hardcore punk band in a record store) I also have a few CC licensed mp3's but they are very few of those. And i have a handful of local cd's and a tape which i bought directly from the bands or from friends of the bands, and those CD's are limited editions, the bands cant afford more than 200-300 cd's and they resell them by hand. Many of the songs cant be found in the internet too, some fans are realy loyal. Guess when you don't sue them for ripping mp3's sending them to friends, the fans actually respect you. I know a lot of people who buy cd's because they want to help their favorite bands, they go to shows and buy shirts and other merchandise just to support the bands.

nadim2• 18 years ago

The EFF link is much better than the TC one: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/07/court-ruling-will-expos...

"Google correctly argued that “the data should not be disclosed because of the users’ privacy concerns,” citing the VPPA, 18 U.S.C. § 2710. However, the Court dismissed this argument with no analysis, stating “defendants cite no authority barring them from disclosing such information in civil discovery proceedings, and their privacy concerns are speculative.""

Anyone disagree that this is a good reason to stop using Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo Mail/Google Docs/etc?

jrockway5• 18 years ago

Anyone disagree that this is a good reason to stop using Gmail/Hotmail/Yahoo Mail/Google Docs/etc?

It's a good reason to remember that you don't have any privacy when using other people's servers.

paul• 18 years ago

The problem is with the law and the legal system. Not using Gmail, etc won't fix that problem. If you think your home computer is somehow safe, you are wrong.

god• 18 years ago

"And Google simply cannot hand this data over without facing a class action lawsuit of staggering proportions."

Is it true, that a company could be hold liable for things they do because a court said they have to?

raganwald• 18 years ago

Watch "The Insider." A key element of the trial was the employer's insistence that testifying under subpoena was still a violation of the non-disclosure agreement.

vaksel• 18 years ago

Instead of being pissed at the judge, people should be pissed at youtube/google for actually keeping track of what videos every single user/ip watched. Just goes to show that Google is most likely tracking every single thing you do online

ajross• 18 years ago

That may be so, but this is still just a terrible, terrible ruling. If the linked article is correct, it's the entire surfing habits of every youtube user, ever. A list of users who watched the Viacom videos in question should clearly be discoverable? This? It's a disaster.

IANAL, obviously, but I have to believe there will be some way to appeal this order and get it sanified, no?

nadim2• 18 years ago

Here is a staggering list of items Google definitely tracks: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/the-evil-side-of-google-exploring...

When I look under Medical Records and think of cross referencing potential I grow a little concerned.

jrockway5• 18 years ago

Why are people so afraid of their medical records leaking out? Honestly, I'm more concerned about my YouTube viewing history than my drug allergies.

Judge Protects YouTube’s Source Code, Throws Users To The Wolves

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