The JRR Tolkien Estate Can Go Fuck Itself

http://www.giro.org/2011/02/23/the-jrr-tolkien-estate-can-go-fuck-itself/

by jancona • 15 years ago

58 31 15 years ago

pjscott2• 15 years ago

In general, the $FAMOUS_DEAD_AUTHOR estate can go fuck itself; such things usually exist for rent-seeking and nothing else. This is especially egregious, though, and there's probably a law against making baseless trademark threats in bad faith. Which the Tolkien estate can ignore with impunity because the legal system is scary for most people, and always inconvenient.

In happier news, though, copies of the banned buttons are now on sale from someone else. The Streisand effect works.

ars• 15 years ago

You can (if Zazzle will let you) just ignore them.

They have no case.

toni• 15 years ago

That merely outlines the problem with Zazzle. They not only respond to DMCA notices by taking down the offended materials (just like an ISP), but they also preemptively police the environment by themselves and take down anything they suspect is copyright infringement.

I once made a t-shirt with an old Albert Einstein picture and they immediately took it down, asking me if I had the permission to reproduce this image. I had to send them a link to The Library of Congress page where I downloaded the image, pointing out that this picture belongs to the public domain. They can ignore a lot of stuff but they won't.

khafra• 15 years ago

That's interesting; because I think I recall something in the language of the safe harbor law where if a content hoster starts actively policing their own content, they can be held liable for anything that slips through their net.

jarin2• 15 years ago

What he should do is file a DMCA counter-notification, which would require Zazzle to restore the product unless the Tolkien estate files suit within 10 days:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Terrorism/form-letter.html

pjscott2• 15 years ago

The DMCA doesn't apply to trademark infringement claims.

jarin2• 15 years ago

Ah, ok. Maybe it's possible to file a fair use counterclaim then?

Jeema3000• 15 years ago

Yes, but this does:

US Code Title 15 Section 1125:

(3) Exclusions

The following shall not be actionable as dilution by blurring or dilution by tarnishment under this subsection:

(A) Any fair use, including a nominative or descriptive fair use, or facilitation of such fair use, of a famous mark by another person other than as a designation of source for the person’s own goods or services, including use in connection with—

(i) advertising or promotion that permits consumers to compare goods or services; or

(ii) identifying and parodying, criticizing, or commenting upon the famous mark owner or the goods or services of the famous mark owner.

nir• 15 years ago

I guess we're still not Reddit as long as "fuck" is not all caps.

chc3• 15 years ago

It's the title of the original post, not editorializing for HN.

p90x4• 15 years ago

I will make 3 statements:

1) hacker news has become www.reddit.com/r/nerdstuff

2) “Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage.” Niccolo Machiavelli

A lot of energy is being put into user driven content, which seems to start of useful but end up becoming crap. There must be an opportunity in there somewhere.

3) someone reply to my post with "this." so i can move on from this site, and find something useful to do.

mkr-hn2• 15 years ago

"Appropriate for HN" seems to mean "HN is whatever I think it should be."

Maybe you could start up a thread or write something that addresses your perceptions so it can be discussed. Or you can keep acting like a melodramatic clown with a dog-eared dollar looking mournfully at the last functioning drink machine in a post-apocalyptic world.

A world of possibilities awaits.

p90x4• 15 years ago

"Maybe you could start up a thread or write something that addresses your perceptions so it can be discussed"

i thought about it, but i decided that there isn't any point. the site is what the users want it to be and i'm not here to "educate" them.

great analogy, btw.

vault_• 15 years ago

This.

(is he gone yet?)

p90x4• 15 years ago

last post.

marcusbooster• 15 years ago

From the guidelines:

"If your account is less than a year old, please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. (It's a common semi-noob illusion.)"

p90x4• 15 years ago

long time lurker, short time poster.

gruseom• 15 years ago

Where did Machiavelli say that? Let's have a textual reference:

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/search?auth...

Actually, not being a 20th century inspirational business writer, Machiavelli almost certainly said no such thing.

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=entrepreneur&...

mkr-hn2• 15 years ago

The only other reference I found was this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Kiam

Found on http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-greenberg/save-the-entrep... with blekko

ryan-allen• 15 years ago

The best comment on that post is this by AngusM:

---

“Dragons steal gold and jewels, you know … and they guard the plunder as long as they live (which is practically forever, unless they are killed), and never enjoy a brass ring of it. Indeed, they hardly know a good bit of work from a bad, though they usually have a good notion of current market value; and they can’t make a thing for themselves …” ["The Hobbit", J.R.R. Tolkien]

iisbum• 15 years ago

After registering thehobbitmovies.com I received a not too friendly letter from the Tolkien estate instructing me to hand over the domain.

I declined their request and may put a site up at some point. For now it is a reminder that it is easy for people to tell you do something they do not have a right to tell you.

stcredzero4• 15 years ago

My reaction is: So?

As a fan of both Tolkien and Evangelion, I find this sentiment to be pointless and tinged with misplaced agression.

You wonder why you should care about Tolkien? Why should we care that you care?

chc3• 15 years ago

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The fact that you're a fan of JRR's work and Evangellion means Chris Tolkien should be able to bully whomever he feels like? That doesn't make any sense, but I don't know how else to read your comment.

stcredzero4• 15 years ago

No, this is entirely wrong, and it shows some small-minded thinking on the part of readers. (1) (And I dont' care how much Karma that burns.)

I object to the content and tone of the button. Whether or not I support Chris Tolkien's actions is immaterial to that. I do not support it, and I support the button maker's freedom of speech. But I also feel compelled to speak out, that the message itself is snide and stupid. Really, do we need to encourage the fragmentation of fandom?

(1) - Whether you support someone's freedom of speech, and whether you think much of what they're saying are entirely separate. Please use your brains and comprehend principles and get beyond simple tribal loyalty.

rs• 15 years ago

Honest question: does the Tolkien Estate have any legal grounding here ?

The way I look at it, if there was legal grounding, it might be a little quirky, as technically we won't be able to even mention any copyrighted/trademarked brand in casual texts. Imagine reviewing products and getting a take down notice at the end of that ? Doesn't make sense to me.