Would you work with micromanaging boss, no salary, and all your work thrown away?

http://blog.shlang.com/post/38977434/would-you-work-with-micromanaging-boss-no-salary-and

by gaika • 18 years ago

91 54 18 years ago

blog.shlang.com

drios• 18 years ago

heheh very funny!!!

subwindow• 18 years ago

Equating education with work is kind of silly. I mean, being silly is obviously the point of the post, but there's no need to be so morose about school. Education is incredibly valuable, and receiving it for free is nothing to sneeze at. In fact, millions of people pay tens of thousands of dollars a year for it after they get done with the free stuff.

Plus, summer vacation is totally awesome.

boredguy8• 18 years ago

Not equating education with work misses the bare truth that education _is_ work. And education _is_ valuable, which is why it shouldn't be put in the hands of a group of people that (as a group) fail.

Seriously, when was the last time you met someone successful that was good at only one thing? Yet children are put, every day, in the hands of people who know NOTHING outside their domain. Certainly there are a few exceptions: you probably even remember a few from your schooling. But they stick out in part because they're so rare.

KiwiNige2• 18 years ago

Maybe it's a coincidence that the best boss I've ever worked for was home schooled, maybe it's not.

dkokelley2• 18 years ago

It's funny you mention that. I was home schooled, and now that I'm in college, I find that it's less than I expected (plus I feel much more prepared than I think I would had I gone to a 'traditional' school). Hopefully I'd make a good boss, too.

We didn't have very rigid class hours, most material was self-taught (especially in high school), and work and studies were done when practical, when I made time for them, not when an arbitrary structure told me that it was time to study this subject. For example: I found that I'm much more mathematically adept later in the day, so I would do the next day's math lesson the night before.

Another interesting thing to note is that I was not micromanaged, as is the case in the article... come to think of it, maybe I'm not as prepared for 'the real world' (corporate) as I thought. :)

nostrademons• 18 years ago

No education, either.

What, do you not remember school?

mwerty• 18 years ago

It's not free.

raganwald• 18 years ago

"millions of people pay tens of thousands of dollars a year for it after they get done with the free stuff."

The fact that many people pay for something does not make it worthwhile for you.

rms3• 18 years ago

Funny, but too lightweight for #1

gaika3• 18 years ago

Do not think so, this is really important and sad. Taming of the wild animals starts at school, and then we wonder why so few are growing up entrepreneurs?

rms3• 18 years ago

It is much, much easier to vote something up that says a simple profound truth than anything complicated for many different reasons. It is bad when easy to vote things dominate the homepage.

mynameishere• 18 years ago

I wish we could see who voted on what so I could henceforth have no respect for those people.

nadim• 18 years ago

Not a bad idea. What if the front page was dynamically generated on a per user basis depending on whose opinion you respected. After typing this I realize it sounds similar to friendfeed. "A dynamic front page of people who you want to listen to"

FWIW, I voted up on this article so you can stop listening to me.

gaika3• 18 years ago

Hey, you're talking about my startup (btw, I re-posted the story from there)

Edit: If you are sick of being downvoted for having a different opinion you should definitely check it out.

byrneseyeview• 18 years ago

Also sounds like http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/uberfac...

riklomas• 18 years ago

I like the way open-desk seating is regarded as a bad thing, surely it's better than being sat in a cube all day?

GrandMasterBirt2• 18 years ago

He should have mentioned: "Its an open desk area where talking to other employees is highly discouraged"

pavelludiq2• 18 years ago

And lets not forget the physical and psychical terror from your colleagues. And the depression, apathy, and disgust with life. It was fun sometimes but between 7 and 15 years of age, i was pretty miserable in school, and i was bored because i knew everything and didn't find any challenges. But from the bright side i can now live my life with out fear of oppression because i know it and know that you shouldn't be afraid of it. The adult world is also full of bullies and its nice to know that you were trained the hard way for dealing with them.

tungstenfurnace• 18 years ago

Yup. Bullying is one of the worst features of the abysmal society which exists inside schools.

Plus the piece doesn't go very far in describing the micromanagement (that would give away the punchline). What kind of boss tries to control what you eat and what clothes you wear? Who demands you raise your hand before you can go to the toilet?

More fundamentally, the job wasn't chosen and there was no interview. In other words, it's slavery.

We don't see it because we were slaves ourselves for 12 years and therefore we feel it must be right. Otherwise we'd be forced to conclude that lives are being borrowed without permission.

pavelludiq2• 18 years ago

I'm not entirely against school, when i was 14 i changed schools and in my new class there were mostly girls and a few nerds(you get to be there after two exams) so it was pretty good. I actually enjoined and was exited. I started learning literature, philosophy, history and was pretty good at that and it was fun(i sort of did the "philosophical poetic teen who wears only black" thing for a while) Well after i got in to programing it got really boring, so thats my problem now, if i want to go to college i have to study chemistry,biology, and a lot of other stuff which i might be interested in, but are not anywhere near my favorite disciplines. So i would describe it more like a waste of time after you get near enough to graduation. And i do think kids should be forced in schools, they just have to have some choice and control after a certain age.For me it was 14, but that differs so its impossible to please everybody.

alaskamiller• 18 years ago

Like when I was 10 years old, I now sit in my designated area eagerly staring at the clock until it's time to go.

bayareaguy2• 18 years ago

$0 salary and no equity (you’re supposed to be compensated in experience) - The experience is worth more than the market salary would pay for the work. In many cases it leads to preferential social treatment and occasionally the social connections you make on the job will turn out very valuable later.

no benefits other than vacation and sick time: no insurance, for example - However, depending on the quality of the employer, you may get access to people and facilities of considerable value.

no possibility of promotion or raise, ever - It's more like the opposite: strong likelihood of automatic promotion regardless of merit.

no job description: just do what you’re told - Not unlike a startup, where your job description is meaningless. You do what needs to be done.

micromanaging boss asks about project status every hour - That depends on the boss and how well you've accomplished past projects.

strict hours, starting at 8:30AM sharp - True but you often leave early.

if you’re late even a few minutes, your boss send you to her boss. rigid workweek, but then you’re expected to work from home a ton. open-desk seating, not even a cube, with a hard chair - Those things vary considerably between employers.

the work is boring and demeaning, like adding digits and copying text - That's not true. Often the employer will expect you to demonstrate your creativity. Furthermore much of the boring work can be done in groups and you often get plenty of breaks where you're free to use your time as you wish.

all your useless work gets thrown away - As it should be. The useful stuff will be saved. Depending on your employer and family situation you may get rewarded for good work in ways that far exceed the market value.

if you want to use a computer, you can buy one or just scribble on paper - Again not so. In fact many employers provide computers even in situations when they may not be necessary for the work.

no supplies room, either - That depends on the employer.

my daughter can’t drive, so commute was complicated - Generally speaking these kinds of employers are often close to home and many provide transportation. Also carpooling is frequent in this line of work.

can’t even put the job on your resume until you work there for a decade - This is backwards: it's good to put on your resume along with specific accomplishments up until you've been there for a decade at which time it's value is reduced.

derefr• 18 years ago

Generally speaking these kinds of employers are often close to home - not true. People take the distance of these employers into account when choosing where to live, instead of the other way around. You'll find the relatives of employees may be dragged around easily by the whims of the employer's industry (and their government Boards.)

radu_floricica• 18 years ago

1. So do many other "cv jobs", but they don't take more then a decade to do it. 2. Like in any other job. 3. True. But automatic promotion doesn't make one proud. 4. Here it's the biggest difference. As an entrepreneur you're training in being able to know what needs to be done. This teaches you the opposite: everything is equally important just because you're told so 5. Not really. In any other job you have at least a few hours of independence. Not in this one. 6. True 7. Not really, at least not he open-desk seating part. 8. Ha ha. Creativity... really. 9. All work = useless work. No work is ever used except for evaluation purposes. Ever. Ever. God, i'm depressed already. 10. Could be, haven't been employed in the field for a while. 11. true 12. true 13. Most people have exactly the same in their resume, so its real value is nil.

I'd like to elaborate a bit on the creativity part. Most school is a lot like an assembly line - the cheapest way to teach thousands of children necessary things. This is not bad, time and money constraints are real. But in this framework you can't afford to encourage true creativity, simply because to be creative you need: 1. a "space" in which to be creative and 2. not to be evaluated by classic means. School environment provides neither.

bayareaguy2• 18 years ago

I'll grant that many schools (and workplaces) are run by people who take that attitude towards creativity and I think the general lack of parental involvement is the biggest cause. I know one teacher who quit the profession when not a single parent cared about attending her second grade class conference.

However there are some good schools out there that do value creativity. It's unfortunate that parents can't or won't insist there be more of them.

edw5196• 18 years ago

That's nothing. Look at the job I took:

lifetime exclusive contract, you can't work anywhere else, not even moonlighting

$0 salary and no equity (you’re supposed to be compensated in satisfaction)

no benefits other than being told that "everything here is a benefit"

no possibility of promotion or raise, ever

no job description: just do what you’re told

no office of your own, in fact, nothing of your own, ever again

all work ever done for any other employer must be forgotten forever; it's useless here

everything you do is wrong

everything the boss does is right

if you want to work on any personal projects, you have to make it appear that it's really for the boss

micromanaging boss complains about everything every 7 minutes

strict hours: 24/7, always on call

lovely seating, but only for company

the work is boring and demeaning, like taking out the garbage and cutting the grass

all your comfortable clothes get thrown away

you have to drive, even though the boss tells you where to go

you have to wear an employment symbol everywhere so that other prospective employers know you're already employed

you can only go to hacker news when the boss is out...oh wait, hold on, Hi Hon, you're home! I'm in here, on the internet, on diamonds.com...<alt-tab> (bye)

xlnt3• 18 years ago

the fact that marriages suck doesn't make school better ;p

edw5196• 18 years ago

Single, right?

nazgulnarsil2• 18 years ago

while amusing, I think that in this culture "marriage" has become synonymous with "bad marriage" as evinced by the attitude of this post and the portrayal of marriage in the media. Specifically, I think that too many marriages (and relationships in general) involve a dominant/submissive relationship rather than one based on equality. I think the media promotes this idea that either you are in charge or they are with no room for something in between.

edw5196• 18 years ago

Oh lighten up. It's a joke for crying out loud.

gruseom• 18 years ago

I don't get the humor in that. I mean, I see the obvious shell of what's supposed to be funny; but to me there's no actual funniness in it, just a profound absence of mutual respect.

edw5196• 18 years ago

Just a parody of a parody (that probably should have never been voted so high anyway). Sorry you didn't find it funny.

I got so tired of "why did this get voted up?" So I just did something a little different, that's all.

sealedidentity• 18 years ago

this isn't hacker news, it shouldn't even be here.

ph0rque• 18 years ago

I believe the author is arguing against instructionism, and for constructionism.

dmoney• 18 years ago

> But millions of other seven-year-olds accepted identical offers.

Well played.

GrandMasterBirt2• 18 years ago

Hows about my new job:

$0 salary. In fact you spend money to work. Its a privilege. You can't quit.

You can't act on your frustrations or the government might intervene.

You have to deal with a lot of shit.

Its always noisy.

You need to get a second job. Usually the second job is a vacation from your first job.

The only time you can go on vacation is when you get someone to take over for you at your expense.

There are no sick days, if you are sick you have to come up with creative ways to do the job and not get anyone at work sick. Also you have to work.

Sometimes you get the job. Sometimes the job is given to you, you can't reject. The government ensures that you take the job whether you like it or not.

You might be offered the position multiple times. See previous point.

There is an eventual payoff... But it is not guaranteed.

The only real up side is looking for the job is REALLY fun.

icky• 18 years ago

> The only real up side is looking for the job is REALLY fun.

... and you get compensated in experience. ;)

maurycy• 18 years ago

Not that funny if you realize that schools are institutions for indoctrination and for imposing obedience.

eyudkowsky• 18 years ago

No.

Harkins• 18 years ago

I hear lots of seven-year-olds are accepting exciting opportunities to work now in the garment industry.

condor• 18 years ago

that is a pretty ridiculous offer . . . that's why I enrolled my 7 year old in business school, and now that she has an mba the six-figure offers are rolling in . . . with equity of course.

Would you work with micromanaging boss, no salary, and all your work thrown away?

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