Ask HN: Have you ever felt your life is going nowhere?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22071483

by mpiedrav • 7 years ago

23 13 7 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Hi, HN!

Have you ever felt your life is going nowhere?

To provide some context: programmer in his early 30s from Costa Rica (Latin America), 3 years of experience in backend development (mostly Python and Go), second year of CS major and second year of math major (i.e., no degree yet).

Initially, my idea was to grow a career in academia by combining computer science and math (e.g., research in formal methods/applied logic). However, I have been struggling with courses for years, as I don't feel capable enough and drop them. I'm aware I sabotage myself by belittling myself, but no professional therapy nor meds have helped.

Plan B would be building CRUDs for the next decades to come.

I don't feel I have the moral authority to call myself a professional, as I don't have a degree yet. Even with a CS degree, I would feel I don't really know my stuff deep enough. That very intellectual curiosity led me to taking math, but I lack the mathematical maturity. I might actually lack "algorithmic maturity".

Development jobs that are good enough are rather scarce in Costa Rica. Recruiters just discard my CV, except for the actual jobs I've had (which I have quit).

Working in the US or in Germany (fluent in German) could be an option, but companies and authorities there expect a foreign skilled worker to have a college degree related to their job position.

I also considered starting a software business. But growing a profitable business idea requires an immense amount of stamina and focus (I lack both), finding customers is really hard, etc. So I discarded it.

Every few months I ponder about ending my life (I did actually try 15 years ago), as I never see a way forward. Depression and anxiety disorder (I have both) are indeed career destroyers: academia/companies are wise to ignore you, as you are perceived as unreliable to endure hard tasks. For recruiters, you are just a risk to be avoided.

soneca• 7 years ago

I am in no position to give advice, but I hope you find a way forward. I think professional help can still help you, don't give up.

I do develop CRUDs for a living and I like it very much.

I call myself a professional software developer without a degree and I am proud that I was able to change careers and become a developer, even if I am no "Google material" nor I will ever use sophisticated algorithms in my work. Just saying that to encourage you to be proud of your skills too.

Contractor jobs might be a way to accommodate your needs and avoid the obstacles that depression and anxiety create on getting a regular job.

If professional development is a way you do see as a path to make your life "go somewhere", I would encourage you to create a profile on Upwork and spend time applying to jobs (with your experience you will have a lot of options to apply there). Directing your effort to succeed on Upwork might be beneficial beyond the financial reward.

I would also encourage you to extend this request for advice to some of your close friends and family.

Again, all this is just trying to offer support and encouragement and I sincerely hope you find your way.

If you think any of the above advice is valid, feel free to send me an email (on my profile) and we can talk more.

Good luck

bigredhdl• 7 years ago

I second this. Please discuss this with some people in person. If possible see a counselor. You have value in this world that you aren't seeing for yourself. Also, many times in life those periods when you seem stuck are also times that you look back on later and realize you learned valuable lessons. Also, something I try and do when I get depressed is spend some time focusing on helping others. But please, if you are having suicidal thoughts, seek lots of help.

bazurk• 7 years ago

You are what you believe yourself to be. Depression is horrible. I suffer with it as well. But at the end of the day your self worth is what you want it to be. society puts expectations on you to be something specific but that should not define you.

At the end of the day, do what you enjoy and focus on that because the worst case scenario is you "waste" time doing something you love.

Having depression I can tell you its really friken hard to stay motivated but I assure you no matter how bad you feel, it will get better and no matter how hard depression hits you, your not alone in that feeling.

My suggestion is to find a depression group so you can work on mental health and self love first. Once you have a handling on that move forward and do something you love.

Sorry for the long winded answer. I'm brand new to the board and your post struck close to home.

CyberFonic• 7 years ago

I too bombed in second year of my degree. Looking back I can see that it is the "dip" (there's a book by Seth Godin on this topic) in your academic progression. Your references to not knowing enough come across as the imposter syndrome. It seems to be common for people with high standards.

Based on my experiences I would suggest dropping the math major and concentrate on graduating with the CS major. Do they have 3 year degree courses or only 4 year? In other words make your goal the MVD (minimal viable degree).

With the degree and 3 years experience you would have better employment prospects than by dropping out and just relying on your experience to date.

If your intellectual interests require it, you can always do some post-graduate study on a part-time basis. Having spent some time teaching and researching in academia, I would suggest doing some in-depth research and talk to people before committing to that path. It can become quite bureaucratic and grants focused and thus more stressful than the majority of jobs in commercial settings.

manbearpiggy• 7 years ago

Maybe you're pushing yourself too hard? Academia isn't all it's made out to be. If you know you're not going to enjoy it or be able to focus, maybe you're right to think about leaving. It sounds like you have good experience, more and more software jobs don't require a CS degree. You're in a good position to work and be professional in your work - a degree doesn't make you professional. In fact, a lot of people with degrees find themselves in very different work roles completely unrelated to their study. Maybe you need some time away from work or the place you live - to put things into perspective. But please, don't hold academia in too high esteem and don't put too much pressure on yourself :)

thiago_fm• 7 years ago

It's hard to tell that to a very anxious person, but all you need is patience.

You are just a few years in the industry and is already thinking you are going to be the very best, or that CRUD applications is an easy task or whatever. Maybe quit reading HN as the community here gives a very distorted picture of the dev community.

I've been coding for 20 years(16 paid) and I'm 31 and it takes literally ages to get really good. I still work glueing APIs and it is just fine.

Take your time to finish your disciplines, don't try to do too much at the same time. It is fine if you don't end up being those top people, industry has plenty of space for people with all skill levels.

Again, take your time.

sjg007• 7 years ago

While you are still in school, just work through all of hackerrank.com .. That will bring you some confidence but you have to do the work.

Jobs in tech can be varied. You could be writing code, you could be testing code or you could become an architect or work with customers in some technical capacity or even teaching. The most important part in coding is getting the design. With any design there is no one correct solution necessarily and you have to view software development as iterative, even more so in a collaborative environment. So go easy on yourself.

I would recommend you look into cognitive behavioral therapy as well. Pick up a book from the library.

Find time for you friends and keep a regular social routine. It could be lunch or coffee, I would avoid alcohol.

downerending• 7 years ago

I don't feel I have the moral authority to call myself a professional, as I don't have a degree yet.

I have several degrees, but that's not how I judge someone a professional. There are lots of people with degrees that nonetheless are quite unprofessional. A professional is someone who reliably solves people's problems.

Although your story is rather similar to my own, not sure what to advise career-wise. If you haven't already looked, you might check out various kinds of system administration. Knowing how to program and a bit of math are super-powers in that realm.

Good luck.

mpiedrav• 7 years ago

Thanks for all the support, folks!

I'll focus on my CS major, even when I'll probably be over 40 when I finish (due to the several next crisis along the road).

In my last job, I found great joy in reverse engineering (interoperability with a quarter-century proprietary legacy system). I also find cryptography and cryptanalysis amusing (applied abstract algebra is nice).

I would like to focus on that career path. Job openings involving those areas are mostly security-related.

But I fear a possible toxicity in that adversarial role (i.e., last line of defense against a whole industry of malware and malicious actors). I can only imagine future burnouts and extended anxiety while dealing with the ever-increasing work demands.

How realistic is that gloomy scenario in InfoSec?

P.S. Cryptopals [1] and Dennis Yurichev's reverse engineering challenges [2] seem quite reasonable for practicing/learning.

There are plenty of Capture-the-Flag, Crackme, wargames, programming challenges, etc., but initially I'll do these.

[1] https://cryptopals.com

[2] https://challenges.re

shinryuu• 7 years ago

I live in Germany. I used to study political science, but never finished. Now I work mostly with django, doing crud. It's fine.

If manage to come to Germany it's a nice country to live in.

pryelluw• 7 years ago

Have you ever felt your life is going nowhere?

Start with that feeling. Why do you feel your life must go somewhere?

You might be medically depressed. Im no doctor. Consider visiting a therapist rather than seeking answers from internet strangers.

epiphanitus• 7 years ago

Lots of good suggestions here but one I’ll add is that maybe you should find a job working for a cause greater than yourself. There are a ton on nonprofits out there that are in desperate need of technical people to help them. My advice if you want to go this route is to stick to orgs that do concrete things for people, like find people housing, or teach English, or provide assistance with addiction, etc. I’ve done some non technical work pro bono and it was some of the most fun working I’ve ever had. You will have to accept a lower salary but if you’re looking for meaning out of work there’s nothing like it.

playing_colours• 7 years ago

I think you pressure yourself with too many “shoulds” and expectations.

Do not create such rules, you do not have to simultaneously study maths and CS, work, think of business. You do not have to struggle for the next degree dreaming that one day you will a real programmer. You already are as you write code and try to be better at it.

Life is happening now, focus on living your days now: code if you like it, study your minimum to get a paper if you want to relocate. There is no goal in life, no direction, only process that you can try enjoying.

Read Courage to Be Disliked. It is a good book, it may address your anxiety. Seek for someone to share your thoughts and problems, or seek how you can help people around.

Ask HN: Have you ever felt your life is going nowhere?

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