CS degree or learn Web development on my own?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21998037

by leeshire • 7 years ago

12 15 7 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I'm 29 years old I put my education on hold for a while in order to just work and survive make a livng but it hasn't worked out and now I'm ready for something bigger.

I been wanting to learn web development for a while or any field in information technology I enjoy working with computers and websites.

Is it better to go pursue a 4 year computer science degree at this age or learn web development maybe get some certifcate and get hired that way.

My main thing is to get out of poverty and become a bit more successful than just making minumum wage jobs in labor construction which I do not enjoy.

any advice please would help direct me in picking the right choice of what I want to do with my life.

I've managed to download Ubuntu and played with linux for a while and some code editors (phpstorm) and learning PHP in order to understand this field. I like it so far.

I guess the only thing is I don't have any network so maybe a CS degree could help me get my foot in the door?

I live in Seattle so much opportunity here but no network for me it's sad and codefellows it's expensive.

hsikka• 7 years ago

I did a bootcamp and then went on to get my master's in CS. I think it would be more useful to you to do something like Lambda School or Hack Reactor, rather than go back for a 4 year degree. A lot of real engineering skills can and are learned by thousands on the fly as they work as Software Engineers. Programs like Lambda get you the essential toolkit and teach you how to learn, while degrees offer breadth in a lot of different types of topics including some very theoretical ones and can be offbeat with what is happening in industry. If you really do enjoy it, you can always work for a year or two as a software engineer, and decide you want to study Computer Science more formally and save up for that. Just my 2 cents, and I'm someone who's applying to CS PhD programs right now.

leeshire4• 7 years ago

wow good for you that's interesting, where I am in Seattle is there Lambda I'll check it out is it expensive?

aiscapehumanity• 7 years ago

I think Lambda is all online

huehehue• 7 years ago

OP, please do extensive research on any bootcamps you might consider. There was a recent HN thread calling them out, and I've found them to be pretty scummy myself. (I was a accepted into one of the big ones and asked for way more money than advertised, upfront. I was offered a teaching position at a Uni bootcamp under an abysmal curriculum. I've been to the recruiting events as an employer.)

I know they're not all bad, but some programs thrive on taking advantage of people in your position.

sesuximo2• 7 years ago

I think a deciding factor would be your ability to get a scholarship for college. If you can do a 2/4 year degree without going into massive debt, then definitely do that.

If school == expensive no matter what, then maybe it's worth self teaching a little longer. Try to get one or two interviews (after at least a few months! probably won't happen overnight) and if it's really not working, then you can reevaluate.

leeshire4• 7 years ago

can you recommend some good scholarships to apply towards? how do people even get scholarships they seem like a dream almost

sesuximo2• 7 years ago

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but you could try asking administrators at a few schools nearby. They might say on their website.

pxhb• 7 years ago

You might qualify for need-based financial aid, provided in part from the university scholarship funds. I believe the only way to know for sure is to apply, be accepted to enroll into the university, and then receive the financial aid package.

I would definitely check out the community college for the first two years. I think you have to be careful on which courses will transfer, and the community college may not offer every course equivalent to the first two years of a CS degree. I think you will save (potentially a lot) of money and position yourself to be more competitive for a top university.

fuball63• 7 years ago

Don't forget to check out some 2 year programs at your local community college. They usually offer more flexible schedules, so you can work while you go to school, and tuition is generally lower. Had a friend that recently did this for a career change and landed a job at at Fortune 25 company.

Good luck!

leeshire4• 7 years ago

better to go to local college first than University?

sethammons• 7 years ago

From a cost standpoint, almost always. Be wary of one is quarter system and the other semester as credits might not transfer as expected.

back to the original question. A degree will help and generally will put you in a better spot (especially for your fist job or two) but is not required. Make some websites, build a couple of tools, start a small portfolio. Then start interviewing to get interview experience. Learn more from the types of questions you are asked. If you have a place you would like to work, don't interview there first; get some practice beforehand.

mattbrewsbytes• 7 years ago

Something others haven't mentioned might help along the way: see if you can get an office-type job at a construction company while you are self-learning and/or going to school. It could even be volunteering where you currently work to help out with any IT stuff.

You already know a lot more about construction than others like processes, procedures, etc. and in an office setting you will likely run into IT related work that needs to get done. It may not be building websites but it might lead to that ... lots of web applications are just a few steps beyond someone's Excel/Access contraption.

leeshire4• 7 years ago

thank you

probinso• 7 years ago

I think that it depends on your support & timeline and what you want to work on.

The most common task that needs to be automated is data entry and distribution. This is effectively digitizing the task of filling out paperwork and getting it somewhere, then verifying it was received. In it's simplest form this is an operational skill. You can do this with free online material fairly easily, although it may be difficult to find a high paying position like this because interviews are usually much more difficult. These skills can also be found at most Junior colleges. Technical Junior colleges may have much more to offer.

This however is a good precursor skill set to entering a 4 year program (and might shave off some time).

Advanced courses can take you from this skillset to more complicated and better paying skills. You can find this this in udemy style courses that are application focused. Going from basics to frameworks to web apps then to phone apps (leveraging tools like flutter and nativescript) can be done on the order of A couple hundred dollars top.

If you have trouble getting started and motivating yourself then a bootcamp is not nessicarily a bad idea. Keep in mind, most programs will lie to you about their product. They often have good curriculum, but it's worth having someone in industry review it before you commit. Many will say that you could get 80-100k on your way out. This is not likely true. I see that most programs have ~20-70% placement and claim 90+%. With a good bootcamp you can likely find a 40-50k /yr (scaled to seattle) fairly easily. The value of having the job is that your income can increase by 10-20% per full work year until you level off with industry (assuming you continue looking after you have been placed). Good programs have networks you can leverage, fill your entire committed time with support (no choose your own adventure months), work towards skills and placement, ability to give you a combo of a structured environment and a solo project, should expose you to both teachers and industry workers.

Eventually you will need to learn about more advance web things and you may get this experience on the job, or need directed courses. it will likely not be worth it to go to university at this point, but instead take Coursera style courses that will fit your needs directly.

After your fourth year you will interview in the semi-meratocracy instead of against sceptics of bootcamps. You will likely cap your income near 120k, which is probably plenty

Alternately, a four year college will likely not set you up for web programming. You will likely get access to at most 3 courses about web development. You will learn about designing programming languages, data structures, algorithms, and systems of scale. This is a applied math degree. You will likely be able to take home 80-120k (again scaled), but perhaps at a lower growth rate for your first few years. You may graduate to do exactly the same work as the bootcamper, but you will make more.

Your take home cap will be higher. You will be able to be picky about the type of work you get. You may not ever have to be "on-call" (depending on your career path).

Your network won't be good regardless of your path for about 2+ years. Everyone you graduate with is your network and they are in the same boat as you. It will be your responsibility to tend your network continuously after you complete, if you want to leverage it.

Interviews are hard technically and by vocabulary.

4 year schools better prepare you for interviews. You will also get a high diversity of exposure. Usually young college graduates are good at solving problems but bad at identifying them.

In a bootcamp everyone comes in with near no technical experience. Your curriculums will be the same, and there will be a very low diversity in how to solve problems. They are however often riddled with people in career transition. These are people who know how to identify problems. To get the most out of a bootcamp talk with your peers about the jobs they left, and try to imagine solutions to their experienced problems.

Also study data structures regardless of your path. I cannot stand interviewing people who don't know data structures.

runjake• 7 years ago

If you're self-motivated enough, just learn on your own.

If you're not self-motivated enough, dip your toe into a community college or cheap programming course.

With programming, you can develop your personal network online (Reddit, Slack, irc, StackOverflow, etc) and odds are you'll meet a ton of people there that live in or near Seattle. It's a handy way to meet locals without having to drive back and forth across the Seattle metro area all of the time.

CS degree or learn Web development on my own?

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