Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50322553

by brudgers • 7 years ago

51 45 7 years ago

bbc.com

billfruit• 7 years ago

Panama City is 500 years old too this year.

blondin2• 7 years ago

umm, can someone explain how significant this is?

xvedejas• 7 years ago

At least 3 significant digits, since we know the exact year; but given we seem to know the exact day you could probably claim it's more like 5 significant digits (500.00 years).

hajimemash• 7 years ago

Brevity is the soul of wit

jariel2• 7 years ago

These are the oldest 'Western' cities in the colonial New World. They were established just after 'contact', just as Byzantine (i.e. E. Roman Empire) finally fell to the Ottomans, at the dawn of the Reformation, before the Enlightenment ... just at the very start of the 'modern period' in Europe. To give some context, Napoleon was 100 years closer to 'our time' than he was to 'that time'. The last English king to die in battle was about this time. The French were not yet a real power. Europe's borders as we know them were just taking shape, and the 'Americas' were entirely Aboriginal.

So they are very intesting cities born at a major turning point in civilisation.

blondin2• 7 years ago

but... since you mentioned the french, isn't french cities like paris more than thousands of years old. thanks for replying though, i was just curious why havana is suddenly singled out because it seems still a young city.

jcranmer• 7 years ago

just as Byzantine (i.e. E. Roman Empire) finally fell to the Ottomans

The Fall of Constantinople was in 1453, the Empire of Trebizond fell in 1461, and the Principality of Theodoro in 1475, which marked the final end of any state claiming to have been the "true" successor to the Byzantine Empire after its defeat in 1204 in the Fourth Crusade. All of these dates markedly predates Columbus's contact voyage in 1492.

lordleft• 7 years ago

In the context of the (european) New World, this is positively ancient. It's actually a bit disorienting (I'm betraying a bit of an US-centric perspective here, apologies) to think of Havana thriving for HUNDREDS of years before many American metropolises. Very cool.

eesmith3• 7 years ago

I've lived a lot of my life in ex-Spanish territories which are now part of the US.

This includes visiting St. Augustine, FL as a kid (founded 1565), and living in Santa Fe[1], NM (founded 1610), which is an hour or so drive south of Taos Pueblo where you there are multi-story buildings around 600 years old.

I think these should be part of a US-centric perspective of US history, but I recognize that most people -- including myself -- learn an English/British flavored perspective of that history.

I also know what you mean. I grew up in Miami, and as a kid there were still people alive born before the city was founded.

[1] Full name: La Villa Real de la Santa Fe de San Francisco de Asís

xrd• 7 years ago

At one point Cuba exported 60% of the world's sugar. If not for a trade embargo with the US (its most important trade partner) for the last 70 years, Cuba would be a very different place. Who knows if many of these architectural relics would be in better shape (arguably "progress" might have meant they would have been demolished for newer buildings). They have an amazing literacy rate (99.7%, one of the highest in the world) and incredible doctors, but yet have terrible poverty and a repressive state. I always wonder whether this will be the year that the country opens up and connects with the rest of the world.

jariel2• 7 years ago

There is no 'blockade' of Cuba, they are free to trade with the other 186 or so nations on planet earth, and can buy/sell most American goods via other destinations. They are a member of the WTO (!!) Since commodity markets are fungible there isn't a huge reason for sugar to be seriously devalued.

It's hard to 'blame America' for the totalitarian rule of Castro Inc. in Cuba, this subject makes me wonder deeply about the nature of perspective of populist leftists, anti-Americans etc.. Cuba is always an interesting litmus test for those who are willing to completely look the other way so long as the 'red flag' is on the pole.

The revolution made a few leaps and then failed miserably, as so many do, which is a real shame, because it's such a wonderful country otherwise. It'd be amazing to see what that country would be under some kind of normal leadership - I suggest it would be the richest in Latin America.

goatinaboat2• 7 years ago

I suggest it would be the richest in Latin America.

It would face some stiff competition - well-governed, Venezuela or Argentina could easily be. And we know this because for brief periods, they were!

selestify• 7 years ago

That is simply not true — see the 180 day rule that prevents any ship docking in Cuba from entering US ports for the next 180 days. It’s not like the rest of the world is just free to trade with Cuba without repercussions from the US, and given the much smaller Cuban market, it’s not surprising that many operators would rather avoid the trouble of unloading cargo there. The revolution has done pretty remarkably well given the adverse circumstances it was placed under.

goatinaboat2• 7 years ago

At one point Cuba exported 60% of the world's sugar.

The USSR paid 5-10x the global market price for Cuban sugar to prop up their fellow regime. But when the USSR dissolved Cuba had no one else willing to be its patron and it’s economy wasn’t designed for the real price.

There are nice buildings around Havana, gorgeous colonial mansions for the chosen few. Most people live with 3 families crammed into an apartment designed for one.

dm37304• 7 years ago

500 years of foundation? I guess the history of the Mesoamericans who lived there prior to their genocide by the Europeans isn't available?

iguy2• 7 years ago

They didn't found a city called Havana, that's all.

dm37304• 7 years ago

You clearly missed my point. But that's okay since I presume your intentions and support of colonialization is clear.

osmay88• 7 years ago

I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba. Some people people die from sickness brought by Europeans and right after the discovery the Queen of Spain at the time ruled that the native couldn't be enslaved. So the ones who didn't die were simply blend into society.

Btw I'm Cuban myself.

dm37304• 7 years ago

I recommend you to read history. There was no genocide in Cuba

Perhaps your history is written by Spaniards. I notice you didn't give any specific books to read. I'll do you a favour. Here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Brevisima-relacion-destruicion-Humani... The cover is "A 16th-century illustration by Flemish Protestant Theodor de Bry for Las Casas's Brevisima relación de la destrucción de las Indias, depicting Spanish atrocities during the conquest of Cuba"

throw513194• 7 years ago

Dude the history of humans is brutal. The only way societies consolidated and culture formed is through the battles and conquers of the past. We're now at a point where we have the prescience to not repeat the past. But just respect that that is how you yourself are alive on this planet. Your ancestors killed and conquered the resources of others, and that's how they propagated to get to you. It's foolish to believe otherwise.

ianleeclark3• 7 years ago

It's foolish to believe otherwise.

Where do they believe otherwise? They're merely mentioning that the city was populated prior to the genocide. You're defending atrocities against a specter of your own imagination.

AwesomeFaic• 7 years ago

Just spent a long weekend in Havana with my fiance, it's a fantastic place to visit. As an American, super surreal visit. https://wanderandponder.com/2019/11/04/a-weekend-in-cuba/

If you're into art, keep an eye on the contemporary Cuban art scene. Got to see some really impressive pieces during our visit.

Havana celebrates 500 years of foundation

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