Egyptian Revolution Live [video]

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?

by sprachspiel • 15 years ago

107 75 15 years ago

english.aljazeera.net

chailatte3• 15 years ago

You know who else won't sleep well tonight? US leaders. Basically, the arab youth is overthrowing the US puppets and overturning US influence in middle east. Joe Biden has voiced open support for Egyptian president today, but Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama has been tactful so far.

As an American, I am glad that the arab youth is escaping the imperialistic shadow that US has casted over the middle east. As an American, I lament that this is the end of the US dominance. As an American, I fear that the revolution around the world will force US into a totalitarian government. As an American, I hope that true democracy will ultimately triumph.

knowtheory6• 15 years ago

Destabilizing Egypt could destabilize the entire area.

Say what you want about how repressive Mubarak's regime is (and it certainly is hostile to the world view i hold dear), but this is a burning house that could easily torch the entire neighborhood.

Egypt's current regime is secular and not hostile to Israel, which are two things we can not take for granted for whatever regime replaces Mubarak.

In so far as the entire world has stakes in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the revolution in Egypt poses a variety of very real risks both in terms of foreign policy for nations like the US, and in terms of potential for lives lost.

chailatte3• 15 years ago

Good, let it destabilize. I can't wait until $5/gas forces US to mandate electric cars as a policy. I can't wait until US pulls out of the middle east, and the government cuts all sorts of debt so that we don't burden our children with a miserable future.

And converting a government to democracy always comes with a price. I am sure the arab youth is ready and willing for that result.

michaelchisari6• 15 years ago

Egypt's current regime may not be hostile towards Israel, but more importantly, it is very hostile to Egyptians.

ugh2• 15 years ago

That’s why the West’s support for suppressive regimes is so dangerous. It’s a temporary fix, you can’t count on it forever and it might just erupt and end badly for everyone involved. It seems like a pragmatic fix but has serious downsides.

If at all possible the West should avoid to let the enemy of its enemy become its friend.

bioh42_23• 15 years ago

Destabilizing Egypt could destabilize the entire area.

This is quite the statement. To me personally shocking, but sadly not shocking in general.

Allow me to rephrase:

We must hold an entire nation hostage to a brutal and incompetent dictator, otherwise who knows what their foreign policy will be.

My reply to that is, what gives anyone the right to trade other people's rights, freedoms, and frequently even lives, for hypothetical political fallout?

Doe Egypt have enough nukes to end the world? Do they have any nukes?

Are we sure another regime will be worse? How much worse? What's the worst that could happen realistically? Is us completely betraying our own American ideals of truth, justice and freedom for all, worth it?

colinplamondon• 15 years ago

Of course they won't sleep well tonight- the last thing we want is a violent Islamic theocracy in Egypt. Egypt isn't Tunisia.

If this revolution goes through it's 50/50, liberal democracy (ElBaradei) vs Islamic theocracy (Muslim Brotherhood). It's that 50% chance that keeps us supporting Mubarak.

American foreign policy is deigned to secure American national security- we have our hands full in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Iraq, and Somalia. The last thing we need right now is to have to worry about Egypt as well.

sasvari• 15 years ago

The last thing we need right now is to have to worry about Egypt as well.

the last thing you got now.

it was only a matter of time things started to blow off. if you look at the demographics in the arab countries (+ Egypt) and their lack of perspective, it is/was very careless to think it will continue just like the last decades.

bilbo0s• 15 years ago

"...If this revolution goes through it's 50/50, liberal democracy (ElBaradei) vs Islamic theocracy (Muslim Brotherhood)..."

If that were the case, I think American leaders would sleep relatively well. The issue is that if those latest elections had not been rigged by Mubarak, then the Muslim Brotherhood would have won by a clear majority. I think the narrative that Western media is pushing about El Baradei being the future leader of Egypt is just the sort of somewhat fanciful thinking that has brought us to where we are today.

The power of technology only serves as a multiplier for the effectiveness of the people utilizing it. It does not change their hopes, or fears, or tastes, or biases.

It took me a long time to realize in my euphoria about the implications of widespread access to technology, that the Human Element is the weakness in the system...

Or its strength.

JulianMorrison• 15 years ago

Israel's leaders won't get much sleep either. They are presently favored by the USA for two reasons: the large pro-Israel voting bloc, and the fact they are the only secular democracy in the region.

If they weren't the only democracy, people might start making comparisons.

stevenbedrick• 15 years ago

Without commenting on your theory as to why Israel's favored by the USA, I'd like to point out a bigger reason that Israeli leaders won't be sleeping well: whoever ends up in charge of Egypt is quite likely to be a lot more hostile toward Israel than Mubarak's government has been.

Israel has been able to count on relatively peaceful relations with Egypt for the last few decades, meaning that since the treaty with Jordan they've only had to worry about one hostile immediate neighbor. Suddenly having to worry about Egypt as well as Lebanon would represent a big change.

mahmud3• 15 years ago

How is a "Jewish state" a secular democracy?

Turkey is the ONLY secular democracy in the region.

lionhearted2• 15 years ago

> As an American, I am glad that the arab youth is escaping the imperialistic shadow that US has casted over the middle east.

Have you done any studying of the history of revolutions? The track record on what usually happens after them ain't so good...

Sometimes Americans underestimate how poorly and bloody and vicious revolutions usually are. Something like 80%+ of them wind up worse than the original regime they overthrew. If you've never looked into, I could try to compile some sort of list of revolutions. It really wouldn't be a pretty list. And revolutions led by angry youth have an even worse track record than the general one...

lmkg• 15 years ago

I came to this thread specifically to ask this question. If you would be so kind, I would appreciate a listing.

tomjen32• 15 years ago

Great. Hopefully this will force the US to stop meddling with other countries and return to its founding principles.

That would end the war on terror, on drugs, save the US economy and make them super popular around the world again.

jacquesm5• 15 years ago

Al Jazeera is more and more a resource of quality, it's gotten to the point that when you want news that is relatively spin free that you can go to the BBC or to Al Jazeera. The interesting part for me is that they are a better source of real info on the US and Europe than most local media.

The chances are though that that is because they're not reporting on their 'home turf', does that extend to them reporting on Arab affairs as well?

sesqu• 15 years ago

Apparently, it's subjective. Someone on Reddit said the Arabic version is akin to Fox News, while others felt it's doing a good job. So I guess it depends on what you're expecting to hear.

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/eryzu/al_jazeera_...

michaelchisari6• 15 years ago

Absolutely. Right now on the newsfeed, the journalist is holding the US spokesperson's feet to the fire about the disconnect between the US' support for Mubarak, and it's expressed principles in favor of democracy. They are directly pointing out the hypocrisy of the US' position.

It's the kind of journalism we're just not used to anymore in the U.S.

jdminhbg• 15 years ago

That strikes me as less "spin free" than "a useful countervailing spin."

nir5• 15 years ago

I think it's hilarious the same people who complain about corporate/government interests affecting Western media often praise Al Jazeera. Do you really assume Qatar's Emir funds the network out of sheer philanthropy, or some passion for quality journalism?

Al Jazeera does not cover issues that are uncomfortable to Qatar - whether it's the WikiLeaks Qatar documents, where they urge the US to strike Iran or issues within Qatar itself. Their hard-hitting coverage is limited to issues that won't harm Qatar's interests - in much the same way USSR's Pravda might cover American corruption.

It's amazing how easy it is to fool people with just a slightly more sophisticated approach.

mkramlich2• 15 years ago

Agreed that it is non-ideal and unpleasant that the US backs Mubarak. However, you make a big assumption. Because in reality, the alternative to Mubarak is not necessarily democracy. It might be another autocrat. And it might be something even worse. Freedom does not necessarily lead to a bunch of shiny happy people living safely on a shining hill. Sometimes it leads to anarchy or genocide or war.

emit_time_n3rgy2• 15 years ago

The documentary "Control Room" is a good one about Al Jazeera: http://tinyurl.com/4hz5zzw

joshklein• 15 years ago

My impression of Al Jazeera is that they're closest in principles and journalistic ethics to our own Fox News. They have a specific narrative that they reinforce through reporting of specific details, while omitting others. Though their facts are usually "correct", they are chosen to fit the narrative, rather than used to construct/change the narrative as it develops.

My impression comes mostly through direct conversations with Israelis who were at certain reported-upon events and have a very different account of how the events transpired than were reported on Al Jazeera. Of course, my sources could be mistaken and/or disingenuous, and are certainly biased.

The NYTimes shared comments (and criticisms) about Al Jazeera today: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28jazeera...

drusenko2• 15 years ago

I lived in Morocco from 1992-2003 and watched/saw a lot of people watch Al Jazeera (the arabic version).

Although it's possible it has improved since 2003, the Arabic version of Al Jazeera back then was even worse than Fox News in what they reported and how they reported it.

I'm fairly convinced the english version they've been cultivating is a massive coup for mind share in the US. They've done an absolutely amazing job at convincing the intelligent elite that they're an unbiased news source to be trusted. My experience is exactly the opposite.

jacquesm5• 15 years ago

Thank you! I can't read/speak Arabic so I have absolutely no way to verify but I definitely fell hook, line and sinker for the way they've been working on their international image.

sp3322• 15 years ago

Another thread http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2151895

sprachspiel• 15 years ago

What has happened so far: A curfew was put in place, it has done absolutely nothing, the streets are full of people everywhere in the country. There are reports of dozens of deaths. The headquarter of president Mubaraks party is on fire for hours, no firefighter are there. The headquarter is next the most important Egyptian museums. The police has no control over the streets, the army was ordered in to enforce the curfew. The people are actually cheering as the military is moving in. It is still unclear what the military will do. Hillary Clinton has issued a statement to the Egyptian government to restrain security forces and avoid violence.

sp3322• 15 years ago

There's also a liveblog going on, if you can't watch video: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/28/liveblog-e...

JonnieCache2• 15 years ago

Another good liveblog from the guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protes...

Hovertruck• 15 years ago

They've also a movement to try and get people involved:

http://www.meetup.com/aje/

emit_time_n3rgy2• 15 years ago

Preconditions of Revolution in the USA Today http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/01/reference-preconditions-o...

kloncks2• 15 years ago

Egyptian here.

What I can't believe is the irresponsible behavior with taking down the Internet in a civilized country smack-dab in the middle of the World. That reckless behavior only goes to show how out of touch the current regime really is. There's no thinking whatsoever in how catastrophic (economically, politically, morally) such an action really is.

Yet beyond that, I'm just worried. I'm terrified actually. While the regime needs to change, I'm not yet sure about the future. Will Islamists seize power? Will another corrupt official do that? Will Chaos and Anarchy ensue?

The trouble with Tunisia is that we've yet to see the results of the revolution. Things are developing...but we don't yet know if it's successful or not.

Not to mention that certain events are making me very sad. I do realize it's hard to mass-protest in a very sane manner...but something like lighting up the National Democratic Party's HQ on fire, when it's across the street from the National Museum (King Tut + 100,000 other priceless treasures) and there's a huge threat of the fire spreading...just worries me. I remember when Iraq was first attacked; the first things that were looted were priceless treasures from Mesopotamia.

borism3• 15 years ago

When we had revolution in Russia in 1917 they attacked and looted czar's palace. Then they made it into world renowned Hermitage museum.

King Tut's relics are the least of my worries.

kloncks2• 15 years ago

I wasn't trying to undermine the importance of the revolution. Just explaining some of my worries of actions afterwards and using the National Museum as an example.

-------

Also, while I get what you're saying, Russia did lose a lot of priceless artifacts from the Winter Palace.

Instead of travelling to St. Petersburg to see Raphael's Alba Madonna, I now have to go to the National Gallery of Art in Washington. The Winter Palace also lost other great works of art from Botticelli, van Eyck, Rembrandt, Titian, among others.

We've had a long history of that happening to us. The Rosetta Stone's in Britain, Nefertiti's in Berlin, and out of 36 Ancient EGYPTIAN obelisks only 9 are actually in the country of Egypt. The city of Rome, by itself, boasts 8. 9 if you count the Vatican.

So, no. I'm actually really worried about our relics.

mahmud3• 15 years ago

Just to put your academic worries to rest, the army has secured the museum 7 minutes ago.

Fear of Islamists is what kept Mubarak in power for the last 30 years. We have no trouble dealing with blood-thirsty, Quran waving Islamist criminals; U.S. is happily in bed with Saudi Arabia and likes the taste of Islam there. Egypt shouldn't be different.

mahmoudimus• 15 years ago

I'm an Egyptian National.

This has been a long time coming for Egypt and this revolution will most likely succeed as well.

The only concerning outcome, which is to be determined, is if Egyptians are up to the challenge of establishing a respected level of checks and balances. Without this, all is lost.

Entlin• 15 years ago

You know, the egyptian people want freedom and stability. The US is mainly interested in stability. Which makes stability kind of an important point.

Now everybody is asking "who will be the next president". Now that's the wrong question considering the importance of stability. ElBaradei will not grant stability. Somebody else will not grant stability. The only way to have stability is to have an institutionalized system of checks and balances where not a single member can override the system and become single leader.

The lack of such a system was what allowed the rise to power of a dictator in the first place. And without such a system it will happen again.

To really fix Egypt and bring lasting freedom - checks and balances. Because the right question to ask is: How will they implement multiple sources with power.

Let's see if the protesters can figure this one out.

Egyptian Revolution Live [video]

Related Stories