“Carpe Diem” Got Lost in Translation

https://daily.jstor.org/how-carpe-diem-got-lost-in-translation/

by diodorus • 7 years ago

57 22 7 years ago

daily.jstor.org

Editors’ Note: An earlier version of this referred to philosopher Roman Krznaric as Austrian; in fact he is Australian.

Very easy mistake to make when you have here an Australian philosopher who for some utterly inexplicable reason, probably deeply philosophical, refuses to call themselves Bruce.

doc_gunthrop• 7 years ago

So "carpe diem" is akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers".

Admittedly, there was a time when I considered the phrase "memento mori" (translated as "remember death") to be similar to the general public's interpretation of "carpe diem", though a closer examination shows it's more focused on the acceptance of one's mortality.

acqq2• 7 years ago

akin to saying "stop and smell the flowers".

Actually, "pluck the ripe fruit" and use the day to enjoy it, which is far from the connotation of "stop and smell", where one just stops for a moment, smells the flower and continues going wherever he goes (which would be again too convenient and matching the currently established cultural expectations). The Chi Luu's article refers to this work by Maria S. Marsilio:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23048886?mag=how-carpe-diem-got...

published in 2010 which analyzes the poem.

We also have the whole poem with the recent translation online:

https://www.loebclassics.com/view/horace-odes/2004/pb_LCL033...

so everybody can read it himself.

According to the 2010 Marsilio's scholarly article (and my understanding of it) in the poem the poet speaks to Leuconoe, a woman who wanted to consult the horoscopes about her and him, he being the poet himself, that is, she cautiously wanted to see what would future bring to two of them together (probably to decide if she'd accept the poet's approach). The poet, conveniently for him, tells the woman to "pluck the day" (which is seen by some as having almost an erotic feel) and not worry for the long-term future, even to "cut back far-reaching hopes to within a small space".

In the words of Marsilio: "Horace wants to share with Leuconoe the pleasures of the present - chiefly wine and love - since "envious time" (invida aetas) attempts to rob them of the enjoyments of life and they may not have the future to enjoy these pleasures."

And the article we all comment here, by Chi Luu, argues that "Gathering flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far gentler, more sensual image than the rather forceful and even violent concept of seizing the moment" and "By seizing the day rather than plucking it like a flower, however, we’re actually conforming to hidden cultural values that we all share, not looking at the world in a different way from the norm, but in the same way as everyone else. These are cultural values that some argue have been co-opted by advertisers to sell us more things that we’re told will make us happier." (More argumentation is in the text, so I won't repeat it all here, but it's needed to be read to be able to discuss the article's messages).

Izkata• 7 years ago

So, more like "savour the moment"?

jaclaz• 7 years ago

JFYI, "memento mori" is the motto and also a form of salute between trappist monks, to be picky it is not "remember death" but rather "remember that you will die" which is slighlty different.

The origin is to tone down the (eventual) arrogance and pride of the man, it is very similar to "Memento homo quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris " ("Remember, man, that thou art dust, and to dust thou shalt return."):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday#Ashes

jasonhansel• 7 years ago

Interesting fact: there's a personality-testing company called "abeo." They claim that their name in Latin means "I am transformed."

The actual meaning, though, is "I go away." The word only refers to transformation in certain metaphorical contexts (compare the English idiom "go up in smoke").

(Can't find the link. The name must have worked!)

benj111• 7 years ago

Considering the number of Latin named companies I'd be surprised if there weren't more with misunderstood names.

If sure if you read Chinese, you'd be able to find some interesting tatoos also.

kerng• 7 years ago

This is splitting hairs - had a discussion with a German speaking friend and there its translated to something like use or make the most out of the day.

marton78• 7 years ago

The canonical German translation is "pflücke den Tag", which is exactly "pluck the day", as suggested in the article.

davrosthedalek• 7 years ago

German here. Never heard that translation. Could be either regional or an old translation. Here, we would say "Nutze den Tag" -- "make use of the day" in the sense of "don't waste it".

mlangenberg• 7 years ago

Yep, same in Dutch: “pluk de dag”.

LoSboccacc• 7 years ago

here's the thing, these are both valid interpretations on the larger context of the poem which is destiny and uncertainty.

it sure means live in the moment as don't worry too much about the future, but it's not an ode to full carelessness and hedonism, the next phrase specifically don't say 'don't believe in the future' but to minimally rely on it.

it's the Epicurean sentiment of future being partly in control of destiny and in part of fate, being a result of both our actions of today and randomness in the form of actions of everything else living and inanimate.

the 'minimally rely on tomorrow' qualify the 'carpe diem' into something between enjoy the moment and take the opportunity you see.

the reference to 'not worry about the future' but still 'prepare the vine for tomorrow' in the prior paragraph is clear enough about it, while being random life goes on. there's a strong theme of not believing to being able to control the future as introduction to the specific passage, which comes intentionally with the ambiguous term to broaden it into multiple meaning. carpe as harvest suggest that the author wanted to include both the 'enjoy the moment' and 'take the opportunities in it' meanings.

zouhair• 7 years ago

Who cares. Words have no inherent meaning but the ones we give them. For all intent and purposes Carpe Diem is Seize The Day.

goatlover• 7 years ago

Then you missed the point that the metaphors we use betray a consumerist and militaristic cultural preference, which is why Carpe Diem became Seize the Day. This matters because culture influences our thinking by the metaphors we use.

sova2• 7 years ago

portray

gioscarab• 7 years ago

Hi guys, I am Italian and have mandatorily studied latin at school for 10 years. We have been tought "Carpe Diem" means "Cogli l'attimo" or "Grab/Catch the moment". The idea is to remind you to fully live your life and make good use of the available opportunities.

sova2• 7 years ago

Carpe (monocarpic, polycarpic) originally means "to fruit" so the article contends that this means to zestfully pluck each moment, in a similar, but less energetic, spastic, and violent way. More akin to savoring the flavor. Although this does contradict many years of "common sense latin training" for many of us.

juliendorra• 7 years ago

The translation that I learned in French is "Cueille le jour" ("Cueillir un fruit/une fleur" being equivalent to "picking a fruit/flower"). It is apparently the consensus translation in French [1]. It gives the phrase a very light tone, and makes it indubitably about the pleasures of life.

Indeed, "Gathering flowers as a metaphor for timely enjoyment is a far gentler, more sensual image than the rather forceful and even violent concept of seizing the moment."

[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem

“Carpe Diem” Got Lost in Translation

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