Ask HN: How to Be a Decent Manager?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20532057

49 34 7 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

As a technical person who’s likely on the spectrum and who’s very poor in the verbal communication skills department: I recently started a position to lead a small development team.

This is my first foray into managing; after many, many years of development.

I have little in common with my charges—I don’t really expect to be chummy with people at work—but it’s 100% my goal to help my underlings succeed in their careers.

Any targeted advice?

There was a former topic that highlights the end goal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230133

But do I account for poor verbal skills?

rusteh1• 7 years ago

Don't call your direct reports underlings for a start.

How do you have little in common with them? You've just spent many, many years performing their role. The key to success in this role, as is the case is most is to display empathy for those around you. Once you are able to do this, the correct choices with regards to the administrative particulars of the role will be easy to see.

Read How to win friends and influence people.

nobodyandproud4• 7 years ago

Yes, that’s a classic. It didn’t help me years ago.

But maybe with age, it’ll be easier to practice.

davismwfl2• 7 years ago

You will need to work on your verbal communication (most everyone need to) as it is one of the most critical aspects of being a good leader. But that doesn't mean you have to be super wordy or buddies with everyone.

You do need to be able to read people's body language and understand their motivations, goals and comments even when maybe poorly communicated (this is a learned skill). Good part is generally leading engineers is helped by having solid technical skills yourself as they will respect you more than just a people manager to start and give you more latitude.

I'd also start off with them one and one, and tell them humbly but direct that you sometimes can struggle with verbal communication and that if they see an issue or have a concern to just raise it with you so you can work on it together. Treat everyone as equals with respect and care, don't feel as the manager/leader you are above them, think of being a leader as it is your job to serve your team. If they need a bridge to accomplish their task, you build the bridge for/with them to facilitate.

You can be super successful as a leader, just takes practice and time. Be humble, honest and human and you won't have issues getting people to follow your lead. That said, do not allow people to take advantage of you, being kind and humble is important but that does not mean you are anyones doormat. :)

BOOSTERHIDROGEN2• 7 years ago

How do you tell difference between being used and being kind/humble ? Any references ti improve this

artsyca12• 7 years ago

'humbly' would come from nonverbal cues, and boy oh boy you're not ready to hear the truth but sometimes it's appropriate to dress up at work

davismwfl2• 7 years ago

Being humble in this reference means you put the person's/teams interest ahead of your own.

The opposite for a manager is to dictate actions and take no responsibility for the outcome. A humble leader will explain what the mission is, how we can accomplish it and address each person's role with their own being the support role to make sure everyone else succeeds. Of course good leaders are doing a lot of work to make sure things succeed, but the team sees those as support to help them get to the goal.

As for not being a doormat, this is the critical part, and it means you set boundaries and do not allow anyone to take advantage of you.

jaclaz• 7 years ago

I'd also start off with them one and one, and tell them humbly but direct that you sometimes can struggle with verbal communication and that if they see an issue or have a concern to just raise it with you so you can work on it together.

Additionally, make it clear that:

1) everyone can ask to talk to you privately anytime

2) anything said in such a conversation will remain inside the room

I have seen over the years quite a few teams (in non-programming fields) have issues from what I call "public" meetings, a lot of people have difficulties in expressing themselves and their opinions when their colleagues are there, expecially when (and it often happens) there are people in the team that - no matter if rightfully or not - appear to be more brilliant or are simply more aggressive/talkative than the others.

artsyca12• 7 years ago

You should know, as a technical person, that the 'manager' can be considered an anti-pattern: https://blog.codinghorror.com/i-shall-call-it-somethingmanag...

You should also know from your education in technical matters that Conway's principle applies in practice and the software you create will ultimately reflect the communication structures within your organization

You'd better get hip to the the idea that people expect real human relationships at work and not some false corporate signalling disguised as casual engagement

I'm sorry but I don't like your prospects at all and it sounds like you're arrived at your Peter principle moment

nobodyandproud4• 7 years ago

Not very encouraging, but the coding horror post refers to the name. Not the underlying need for the code.

One of my jobs is to mentor, which is something I liked doing in my prior job (different company).

I also understand the business reasonably well so hopefully there’s something I can offer my people.

artsyca12• 7 years ago

"Abandon hope all ye who enter here' is my best advice to you fellow, but that you actually care is a promising sign. Most managers I've had the displeasure to work with have gamed the heuristics until they've lost all meaning as if they'd never even stumbled upon Goodhart's law

artsyca12• 7 years ago

I'll explain something as a technical person to another technical person, assuming you have some level of civility and you weren't born in a cave and raised by an algorithm

Human beings communicate in many ways outside of words, so you're in luck, you don't have to have good verbal skills, you have to have better non-verbal skills

If I were in your position I'd rise to the challenge and understand that although becoming a manager is not a promotion in many senses of the word, there is an additional level of responsibility, and some people will consider you to be in a position of 'leadership' or even a 'boss' whether you like to admit it or not

As such, it is helpful and humble to apply a semaphore, a visible, definite cue that you accept this duty and wish to make the most of the opportunity, and that you're aware that people's careers are now interdependent with yours even more than before

One traditional cue that has been lost to the sands of time is the humble necktie -- it has been worn by such giants of computing and computer science such as Alan Turing, Vint Cerf, and Steve Jobs, Hewlett and Packard..

The reason I call it humble is because it is, contrary to popular opinion, wearing a necktie is not haughty or entitled, on the contrary it can also be humbling and genuine if done with a pure heart for the right reasons (of which I assure you there are plenty --)

It's a way to signal in a definite, visible, nonverbal way that you take your role seriously and are willing to put in that extra effort and expect more of yourself than your 'charges' 'underlings' 'reports' 'resources', 'assignments'.. call them what they are: 'people'

You can consider my words of advice to you and I'm sure you'll go with the hoi polloi and make a million excuses as to why it's inappropriate to wear a tie, as a manager, as someone who openly admits your own deficiencies

I say it's better to rise to the occasion

You'd think technical people would've figured these things out by now but I guess in some cases it's one thing to read about things in books and another to understand context still matters in real life

nobodyandproud4• 7 years ago

Thanks.

It definitely helps to have some pointers. I can’t wear a tie, but there are analogues that accomplish the same.

I took this responsibility on (new company) because I really want to take on the additional responsibility.

I know I have a steep learning curve—complicated by learning a somewhat different tech stack—but trial by fire is the only way to see if I can rise up to the challenge.

artsyca12• 7 years ago

Yes, of course you can't

FranzFerdiNaN• 7 years ago

Your number one role is to be a shit umbrella, protecting your team from all the shit that gets flung at them from all sides.

It’s you who will have to say no to the higher ups when they demand that you drop everything and start working on quantum computers because their brother heard about it on a birthday.

It’s you who will have to argue with other managers and team leads when they want to push work on your team.

It’s you who will have to step up when team members get into bad arguments with each other.

You will have to accept that your job will leave less and less time for the technical side you’ve done before.

You are no longer the same rank as your team members, never forget that. Because they won’t, and if you get into technical arguments with them they might follow your idea because you’re the boss, not because you are right.

If you can’t or won’t want deal with these kinds of things, please don’t take the job. Management is a real skill.

artsyca12• 7 years ago

Not to mention exemplifying the 'company values' for whatever they're worth

Delmania• 7 years ago

Yes, the manager’s sheen. No matter how you’re feeling you should always strive to exude and instill positive energy into any interaction you have with the team.

pts_3• 7 years ago

You forgot kissing higher up's asses. Really hard.

loa_in_• 7 years ago

Hopefully Managers also get to have good Management.

openlowcode• 7 years ago

Hi,

I think you should start by making sure you set clear directions, and everybody understands. Then, just also be open to listening when people have something to say.

A surprisingly low part of your time will be spent as a 'policeman'. Most people do not try to cheat or be lazy, they just want to understand and be listened to.

As a manager, you are not the dictator of a small country. You are a sailing boat captain who is looking at the waves, and asking his team for the state of the boat.

seanhunter• 7 years ago

Well firstly, congratulations! This is a fun and interesting opportunity to grow as a human being. You will make mistakes and learn a ton. Your most important job is to be an enabler/force multiplier supporting the success of the team.

1) Make sure the team fully understand the goal and are directing their efforts at the simplest possible way to achieve the objective. Engineers are famous for spending time on bikeshed arguments that don't matter and making heroic efforts to do interesting wrong things rather than boring things which lead to success.

2) Related to the above, but try to ensure that people are pointed at tasks which enable them to grow while still leading to team success overall. This is an incredibly interesting optimisation problem that will occupy your mind and hone your judgement.

3) Act with absolute integrity. Don't succumb to the temptation to weasel out of tough situations. If you've made a mistake, own up to it. If something is hard, say it's hard, but don't use that as an excuse to not take the important decisions you need to take. You got the title now you need to do the job.

4) Your poor verbal skills are going to be present some challenges but here's some specific tips - always start with a verbal conversation whenever you can (even if doing so makes your skin crawl) and immediately follow up by email setting out specifics and allowing them to comment. This prevents all kinds of misunderstandings and ensures you are in complete sync. The harder the conversation, the more important you do it face to face first - Learn some patterns which help to ensure people don't misunderstand key conversations. - Start with the important part and state it as plainly as possible. - Don't attribute intentions, but talk about impact. Say "When you do x, the effect on the team is y and that's bad because z", not "you're always x, I think that's because a b c". - Be as specific as possible about what your expectations are and what people need to do to fix things. eg "I need to see x by Friday and if that doesn't happen, the consequences will be y". - If you're giving someone a verbal warning or other feedback that could lead to changes to comp, affect future promotion or lead to dismissal _make sure the person can not possibly be in any doubt as to the gravity of the situation_ even if it seems heavy-handed. I have started conversations with "thanks for coming. We need to talk about something that will affect your future at Yoyodyne Inc." and follow up with an email ccing HR.

5)Following on from that, don't surprise people. They should always know whether they are doing well, poorly, what they need to do more, less of, what your expectations are etc. Don't assume they know. I always assume people can read my mind and they really cant.

6)Think strategically about your team and how they can be even better than they are: more/less/different people, more/different support and interaction with other teams, fewer meetings wasting time/more investment in getting in sync preventing time wasted doing the wrong things.

7)Think strategically about your people: What they like/hate doing, what they are good/poor at, where their blindspots are, what the right next step should be for them. Getting good at this will make you into a superhuman zen master of a manager.

8)Read "Managing Humans". It's fun and you'll find it helpful, and I consider Rands (Michael Lopp) to be a friend so you'll be giving him a small royalty.

9)Get really good at interviewing and learn from your hiring mistakes. You're looking for people who add to your team which means not everyone is going to have the same strengths and weaknesses. Try to think about where the gaps are and what the missing jigsaw pieces look like. Recruiters will try to influence you to hire someone who looks exactly like the last person they placed with you. That leads over time to a team who all do and think exactly the same.

The fact that you understand the job of a developer is great. Try to avoid the easy temptation to play up "us vs them" ("team" vs "management" or "product" vs "sales" or whatever) and instead help your team to see how their work fits into the broader mission and how the work of non-technical colleagues (eg salespeople) is important too.

Finally: Having stuff in common with your team is completely unnecessary and often unhelpful, leading to groupthink and bro-management nonsense in the worst case. As you grow your team it should become less and less of a uniculture over time anyway. I make it a rule to seldom if ever socialise with my team- their downtime/drinks/whatever can be spent moaning about me and blowing off steam if they want. I'm not trying to be people's friend- this can be very uncomfortable and as the power dynamic widens can lead to lots of very difficult situations that are best avoided entirely.

nobodyandproud4• 7 years ago

Great advice, thanks.

Especially the last is comforting to hear.

BOOSTERHIDROGEN2• 7 years ago

leading to groupthink and bro-management nonsense in the worst case I'm not quite sure how to interpret this, could you give examples ?

silveroriole• 7 years ago

As someone who is similar to your description, my honest advice is to set a date in the future where you evaluate whether you actually like this role. Think about what your plan is if you don’t like it (can you step down or will you have to move companies?). Don’t get trapped in it for years because you don’t want to give up... if you’re not that interested in people and talking, this role will probably make you miserable.

Rainymood• 7 years ago

Read: The Making of a Manager by Julie Zhou (VP of product design at FB)

It clearly explains what a manager is and what he is responsible for and how to be a good manager. It also reads easily as it's a well-written book.

She defines the main job responsibility of a manager as follows: to get better outcomes from a group of people working together.

Trias11• 7 years ago

I had a stint as a manager in my company at which i miserably failed. Team started leveraging technologies I didn't understand and some developer suddenly develop consistent passive aggressive attitude toward me which i had to deal with. Upper management eventually scrapped the project and critisized choice of technologies to build the project.

I survived.

Then my manager gave me a budget to hire outside consultants to do project.

I greatly succeeded in that because i didn't have to play politically correct diplomacy and follow infinite "proper" BS processes, standups, babysitting team, sprints, do agile scrum crap, etc...

Basicaly i found consultants, negotiated rate to fit available budget and told them to do shit or else.

They came back with shit done.

I reported to my boss that shit is done and ready for more.

Rinsed and repeat.

Skunkworks does wonders.

Irishsteve• 7 years ago

Ask your manager / HR for support and training on how to manage.

Read up on 1:1s and ways to manage people performance I.e make sure they are working in things they are engaged with.

Ask HN: How to Be a Decent Manager?

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