Tesla’s head of production is going to EV startup Lucid Motors

https://electrek.co/2019/07/01/tesla-head-of-production-ev-startup-lucid-motors/

by gibolt • 7 years ago

71 89 7 years ago

Lucid Motors has kind of spun out of Tesla. It was started by a former Tesla board member and executive and it is led by Peter Rawlinson, the former chief engineer of the Tesla Model S.
Several other Tesla engineers and executives have also joined the startup and they are now also adding Hochholdinger to the team

agumonkey• 7 years ago

will this be a fairchild / intel moment ?

FireBeyond2• 7 years ago

Is it really a spin off? Or more of an abandoning of ship?

ricardobeat2• 7 years ago

What’s with this recent trend of simply posting quotes from the article in HN? Haven’t we all just finished reading those exact words, what value is this adding to the discussion?

Shorn• 7 years ago

I rarely read the article, this comment surfaced an interesting aspect.

camjohnson262• 7 years ago

Maybe people have never heard of Lucid motors and want to know if it’s worth clicking.

atonse2• 7 years ago

Is this sort of how they're trying to make a Tesla without Musk? By just leaving one by one and recreating the company without Musk, instead of just firing him?

Really curious as to what the motivations might be here for all these people to leave (apart from the monetary benefits of joining another "Tesla" even earlier).

gibolt3• 7 years ago

Most Tesla employees want to work on EVs, and it is a natural inclination for employees to move towards newer, shinier projects and want to switch company at some point.

Lucid probably makes that choice super easy, since you'll be working with familiar faces.

The early employees are likely the best to create a new electric car company, since they were the foundation of the current industry leader.

atonse2• 7 years ago

I agree – I'm just wondering what the draw is. Maybe Tesla has gone into maintenance mode with refinements to their cars, and these folks are fundamentally builders and want to build something radically different.

But when you look at it, they're building another Model S.

londons_explore3• 7 years ago

Wonder if they could persuade Musk himself to jump ship...

After all, they're going to need a visionary...

mdorazio• 7 years ago

It's also worth noting that 1) Tesla burns out employees at all levels very quickly with shitty working conditions and 2) Tesla's stock is not doing super well anymore, so total expected comp isn't that great in comparison to other options.

Ex-Tesla employees have flocked to a variety of EV startups (Faraday Future, Elio, Lucid, Rivian, etc.) with varying levels of success for a while now. It's kind of like an incubator for EV engineers.

T-A• 7 years ago

Musk aside, starting a new EV company is worth up to $1.5 billion in federal tax credits + a few thousand per vehicle sold in state tax credits, so there is that.

simonebrunozzi• 7 years ago

ANY new EV company gets these credits? Really?

WhompingWindows• 7 years ago

Employees leave companies for numerous reasons all the time in all industries. Better pay, better quality of life, better opportunities, lower stress, novelty, innovation - there are many reasons. I think Tesla just has a microscope over it at all times which makes it seem worse than other companies.

bdcravens5• 7 years ago

I went into a bit more detail in a parent comment, but perhaps they feel Tesla under Musk has lost its way. Too many features, too much luxury, and a CEO that has a huge second love. Many want to change the world with EVs, not work for a messiah figure or a Hooli.

myrandomcomment2• 7 years ago

Once again, the car the Lucid is making is WAY MORE luxurious than the Tesla. Just look at their site.

https://lucidmotors.com

vr464• 7 years ago

The idea that you could change the world for the better with electric private transport appears be an American trait and Musk is convinced by this, with frequent attacks of mass public transit. A better future doesn’t involve better cars. Cheaper or more efficient use of energy is simply going to increase energy consumption.

dv_dt• 7 years ago

There are a lot of people who might prefer greenfield work vs working in a more established framework - and Tesla with larger production lines and existing vehicles and technology would likely have many more areas of design or development freedom constrained. Improving within a known framework may also engage a different set of skills and sensibilities, and people good at one may not be good at the other. Overall, it's probably better for the world that more and more people who trained under Tesla, are spreading the knowledge of how to build EVs.

my_usernam3• 7 years ago

Yeah I also buy into this idea, and don't think this should be read into as much as other people ITT are. Even the article doesn't try to stir up much drama, which seems to be unusual for reporting these days.

erikpukinskis5• 7 years ago

Yes, and a lot of people realize that starting a company and building a strong team is a good way to get an excellent comp offer, as a group, in an aquihire.

This is a known strategy on HN, recommended by none other than Paul Graham. Reasonable expectation of utility for a talented group or individual.

zyang• 7 years ago

This is reminiscent of Shockley and the traitorous eight.

bdcravens5• 7 years ago

Interesting name: "Lucid"

This implies clarity. I personally think Tesla vehicles may fit the needs of a small percentage of the population (kind of like the new Mac Pro), but are overkill for everyone else, and the excitement in EV's is changing the world for future generations. This requires a car you can sell to everyone, not just those who would drop $80k on a car (or even $40k). I believe the core of what Tesla could be, a great EV, is obfuscated by things like AutoPilot. Interestingly enough, that's where most of the issues and headlines are as well.

myrandomcomment2• 7 years ago

Except Lucid's first car is an over top luxury car that even has an option for exec stye seats in the back for those that have a driver. Their car is a Mac Pro and Tesla is just the 5K iMac.

https://lucidmotors.com

bdcravens5• 7 years ago

Disappointing.

reneherse2• 7 years ago

Having taken a first look at images of the car on their site, I'll say one thing: Lucid has managed a much higher level of aesthetic refinement in their design than Tesla.

I'm a huge fan of Tesla overall, and especially their engineering. Unfortunately, despite the pedigree of their design team, I find the aesthetics wanting. In comparison, the Lucid "Air" (as their model is known), seems to rival the best German manufacturers for aesthetics. It has the crispness and ease of a design from a mature luxury car company. So hats off to that achievement, whatever their market or price point.

Tesla's sheet metal and interiors are somewhat clumsy in comparison. (It's never a good sign when your car looks best in the curve-hiding color black.)

rasz3• 7 years ago

This is a very small car segment, almost no product moves there. Hyundai learned it the hard way with Equus.

mtgx• 7 years ago

I agree. On one hand, Autopilot hardware is holding back Tesla from making its cars significantly cheaper, while on the other, the best hardware they've put in their cars is still nowhere near powerful enough for a sufficiently safe level of "self-driving".

I do think Tesla's attention to detail in regards to crash safety and safety against battery fires is also quite important, and they should keep doing those things for all of their cars, but I don't think those alone require Tesla to make $35,000+ cars. I think they could build a good enough EV for $25,000 right now, and even a cheaper one in a few years. In fact, they should strive for that more than anything else (including AutoPilot).

I'm not saying Tesla should end-up building $8,000 EVs - what I'm saying is their threshold should be much lower than it is right now if they still want to remain relevant in the new EV world. Sure, you could argue that Porsche doesn't sell a ton of cars a year, yet everyone knows it, but it's not "relevant" to most people.

m463• 7 years ago

but are overkill for everyone else

I see it as kind of like the iphone. Way too much capability for everyone. The car makes no noise and goes 0-60 under 5 seconds, and it will do the accelerator and the steering wheel when things get boring, and it avoids other cars, and has a giant screen with real maps ...

..and then everybody adapts and they add those features to their list of "normal"

bdcravens5• 7 years ago

I can buy a <$100 unlocked phone that does pretty much everything my $1500 iPhone XS Max can do; even the homeless have smart phones. I think we're a long way away from when the poorest in society are driving an EV, let alone one with Tesla functionality.

jseliger• 7 years ago

This requires a car you can sell to everyone, not just those who would drop $80k on a car (or even $40k).

From the article: "In 2017, Lucid Motors announced an aggressive $60,000 base price for its luxury all-electric sedan, the Lucid Air, with a range of 240 miles and some other interesting specs."

thorwasdfasdf• 7 years ago

if you want an affordable EV, how about the Nissan Leaf! You can get them used now for about 7k to 8k

sjg0072• 7 years ago

Yes but it looks like a death trap.

londons_explore3• 7 years ago

Lucid Motors looks like an almost exact clone of Tesla... The strategy, the design, etc.

I wonder how they expect to be better?

Ididntdothis• 7 years ago

There often is an advantage to being a second mover. I am sure Tesla made a lot of expensive mistakes that a newcomer can avoid and save a lot of money.

The same would apply for SpaceX. They could study a lot of the successful and unsuccessful things other rocket makers had made and then do better.

ancorevard• 7 years ago

Being the last mover is preferable.

To illustrate the point: Google search, the last search engine. Facebook, the last social network.

rasz3• 7 years ago

Its easy to look good when you dont actually make anything. This is a 12 year old "startup" without a product.

londons_explore3• 7 years ago

Interesting the lucid motors website is available in English and Chinese.

I wonder if they're hoping for China to be their main market, or to attract investment from there?

Meandering• 7 years ago

There has been Chinese money backing lucid motors since their early stages. I've seen several articles over the past few years. Seemingly, they are working with a Chinese bus company as well...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/21/18235019/lucid-motors-ele... https://electrek.co/guides/lucid-motors/

tills132• 7 years ago

The thing I like the most about Tesla is the cars look futuristic without going _too far_. I feel like every other luxury EV company just goes off the deep end. The 3 and the modern S are the perfect design imo.

asteli3• 7 years ago

I think they went overboard with the "everything must happen via the center console" interface strategy. From an aesthetic perspective, it is Very Pretty, but it's kind of hard to accept that the way to open a glove compartment is a button, on a screen, two feet and some menus away from the compartment itself.

tills132• 7 years ago

I definitely agree there. Dials and knobs are great because you can operate them without looking away from the road. However, I can see why they went down that path - if everything is done via the screen, they can add features via an OTA update.

erikpukinskis5• 7 years ago

It’s not primarily an aesthetic choice it is about part count more than anything. The LCD is 10 parts and a lot of wiring. The same stuff in a trad vehicle is a thousand parts and all the same wiring and probably a display or two. It’s just more expensive to make.

DannyBee• 7 years ago

I think the 3 and the s look nice but the x is just plain horrible. It looks like someone stopped designing it half way through and then just threw a spoiler on it and called it a day.

(The first ipace and etron were also delivered to people who hated the style of the x, but otherwise liked it. The larger luxury market is funny this way - range will not be everything)

rthomas6• 7 years ago

I like the 3 except for the giant panel in the middle of the car that functions as speedometer and all other instrumentation at the same time. You have to look away from the road and gorilla finger your way through things to change anything while driving. It seems unsafe to me.

jdietrich2• 7 years ago

Hot take: Tesla isn't actually a car company, it's a battery company. The Model S and Model 3 are functionally equivalent to Google Nexus devices - their purpose isn't particularly to sell a lot of units, but to provide a proof-of-concept for other companies to emulate. Tesla Motors fails if it dies, but it succeeds if it's killed by other EV companies. Selling cars to consumers is fundamentally less scalable than selling batteries to car manufacturers; you don't need dealerships, you don't need marketing, you don't need a complex supply chain for thousands of complex parts, you just need a couple of huge factories and some proprietary chemistry.

woodgrainz• 7 years ago

Doesn't Panasonic make the batteries for Tesla?

martinald• 7 years ago

Correct, and the Tesla Panasonic relationship is really on the rocks (iirc at one point Tesla owed panasonic over US$1billion in payments)

jdietrich2• 7 years ago

Tesla own the Gigafactory but lease the manufacturing equipment from Panasonic on a per-cell-manufactured basis. Tesla have just bought Maxwell, a lithium cell and supercapacitor IP company.

Panasonic effectively make the cells (through quite a convoluted financial arrangement with Tesla), but Tesla make the batteries, which is a crucial distinction. An EV battery pack is inordinately more complex than a bundle of li-ion cells.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-maxwell-acqui...

danso• 7 years ago

For that analogy to work, wouldn’t Tesla have to be as peerless and revenue-dependent on battery tech as Google is to search and other online services? I read good things about their battery tech but nothing that suggests they have the influence or dominance Google has with search. And the financial statements don’t seem to emphasize battery revenue growth, nevermind the way search revenue has been 90% of Google’s lifeblood for nearly its entire life.

la_barba2• 7 years ago

Interesting idea, but scale also brings about commoditization. Proprietary chemistry is not going to protect you. A Tesla branded battery that costs 2x a regular one isn't going to sell well.

cgb223• 7 years ago

Simple question then:

Right now, does Tesla sell batteries to other car companies?

sjg0072• 7 years ago

Panasonic is the answer to your question. https://www.google.com/search?q=who+makes+tesla+batteries

erikpukinskis5• 7 years ago

They didn’t ask a question.

Tesla’s head of production is going to EV startup Lucid Motors

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