Tell HN: Turing test for citizenship.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1999028

by exit • 16 years ago

4 7 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

An idea that just occurred to me.

All nations should be forced to grant citizenship on the basis of a Turing test. A group of certified-citizens are assigned to interview a person of unspecified citizenship.

If the citizens decide the interviewee shares their citizenship, that interviewee acquires their citizenship.

Only a few interviewee will actually be non-citizens. Citizens acting as interviewees are monetarily rewarded only if they convince the interviewers. Likewise, interviewers are only monetarily rewarded for positive-positives.

The point being, if a person cannot be distinguished from an actual citizen, there is no basis for denying them the right to reside and work in the country.

I haven't worked out details like the medium for interviews, off-limit questions, etc.

update: Please note, I am NOT suggesting this program replace other vectors for citizenship. This idea is strongly inspired by the experience of going to a US university and not being able to recognize some international-students as such beyond superficial qualities like an accent.

dholowiski• 16 years ago

So what your saying is that countries should be forced to only accept new citizens who are already 'just like us', and keep out 'different' people?

exit2• 16 years ago

no. not at all. this would just be one vector for acquiring citizenship, and would not replace other programs.

Swizec2• 16 years ago

The problem with this approach is that it doesn't really allow for nations to evolve and new nations to spring up.

Consider this: say, Tesla applies for citizenship in, say, US. He has a brilliant mind, his ideas are awesome and very advanced. He is denied because he can easily be differentiated from the other people. If nothing else, then on the fact he doesn't know all the culture, the in-jokes etc. His life-dream is also providing free electricity for everyone.

Another scenario: Ada Lovelace applies for citizenship pretty much anywhere in her era. She is denied because she's all about doing the same things as men and not quietly making dinner and staying in the kitchen.

What I'm trying to say is that your idea would result in very uninteresting nations that would be completely intolerant of anyone standing out from the herd. Even moreso than they are now.

exit2• 16 years ago

as i responded to dholowiski, this program would not replace other paths to citizenship. Every country should be falling over itself to bring Tesla and Lovelace into their work force and society, regardless of how similar they are to the current population.

This program would cover people like the kid who got into Harvard, but then discovers he was born 1km south instead of north of some invisible line. Or the kid who grew up admiring American society, got good grades and goes to an American University, makes lots of American, but then doesn't luck out in the visa lottery. Also, more mundane cases like Canadians who want to live in the States and vice-versa.

Swizec2• 16 years ago

Well here's an interesting example a friend's startup is going through.

They have to date raised several millions of money, created a few jobs in the US, have an HQ there and another subsidiary also in the US ...

... but none of the founders can get a visa.

sp332• 16 years ago

>She is denied because she's all about doing the same things as men and not quietly making dinner and staying in the kitchen.

I find your stereotype of stereotypes pretty amusing. Augusta Ada King (nee Byron) was encouraged in mathematics from an early age. Among her many tutors was Augustus De Morgan! He expressed great appreciation for her abilities. She married a baron who later became an earl. Not much kitchen work in that lifestyle.

Of course there was sexism and biases etc. I just thought it was funny that you pointed out completely wrong ones.

bmm6o• 16 years ago

It seems like you've started with an unusual premise (if a foreigner is otherwise indistinguishable from a citizen, he should be granted citizenship) and designed a test to implement it. Instead of focusing on the implementation, I think it would be more informative to explore the premise.

It really makes very little sense to me, especially the "should be forced" part. Who exactly would force all nations to relinquish the most fundamental aspect of sovereignty? To what/whose gain?