Tired of TSA body scans and groping? Things you can do

http://people.tribe.net/deborahp/blog/fa8faa5a-a355-4c5f-ad18-51a5424baa54

by jdp23 • 16 years ago

18 43 16 years ago

people.tribe.net

jdp2314• 16 years ago

With links to incident report forms from EPIC and ACLU.

lukeqsee7• 16 years ago

A few more ways: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1898153

geophile3• 16 years ago

Dumb question: Suppose you opt out and get groped. What happens if you report the incident to whatever police force has jurisdiction at the airport? (City cops?)

lukeqsee7• 16 years ago

Most likely nothing: you opted for it.

geophile3• 16 years ago

I opted for a security check, not sexual assault.

jdp2314• 16 years ago

that's incorrect. you've agreed to be searched in accordance with TSA's procedures. that doesn't mean you've given up your rights.

if you are groped or harassed or otherwise sexually assaulted, you can complain to the agent's supervisor or call the cops. like i said above i'm not sure what the best thing to do is but there certainly are options.

edit: i'm very curious why this comment was downvoted ...

asmithmd12• 16 years ago

That is why they tell you what they are going to do before they do. If you object they will stop and ask you, "Do you want to fly today?" So every step of the way you have opted in.

I will be traveling with my 4 year old and 6 year old daughters and I am genuinely conflicted about which option to choose for my daughters: Unknown dosage of Xray radiation with un-tested effects on growing bodies, or groping by a stranger.

The ideal outcome from my perspective of challenging this terrible situation would be to have them start screaming "Bad Touch!" at the top of their lungs when they were groped. But I think it is un-fair to them to train them to do that.

_ouxp• 16 years ago

How Kafkaesque[1]. To fly, you must "choose" either naked x-ray photography or molestation by agents of the government.

Don't say flying is a privilege. Where else should I have to sacrifice one right to exercise another? The 1st amendment to the US constitution implies a right to travel, and the 9th clarifies that the enumeration of rights is not exclusive.

[1] This is not the only example of the TSA borrowing from Kafka. The TSA employs secret directives, reminiscent of Kafka's Before The Law. The Supreme Court supported this secrecy in reviewing these documents in camera in Gilmore vs. Gonzales.

jdp2314• 16 years ago

it's not a dumb question at all. i'm not sure what's the best thing to do in this case, but i will try to find out and add it as a comment here and on her post. thanks for asking.

jcromartie• 16 years ago

I hate the term "opt out" applied to this issue. You shouldn't have to "opt out" of something that is pretty clearly a violation of our constitutional rights (4th amendment at the very least) as citizens.

jdp2314• 16 years ago

belated answer: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1912462

jseliger• 16 years ago

I've seen some of these stories, and I have one idea that might at least make the TSA goons more uncomfortable than you, at least if you're male: act like you like it. Say things to the guy doing it like, "Damn, girl, you have a nice touch," or "I usually have to pay $200 for services like this, but you'll do it free!"

Most people, especially guys, are extremely uncomfortable around gay guys. I'm straight, but I have to do some flying in December and have thought about doing this (in addition to the kinds of things listed). Has anyone tried something similar?

bedris• 16 years ago

This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard.

daeken• 16 years ago

This is being upvoted? Really? This sort of completely negative, non-constructive comment on HN bothers me a bit. If you dislike an idea, say why you dislike it, don't just say "this is dumb", or words to that effect.

I don't agree with the idea either, but this is HN, not Slashdot/Reddit/Digg/whatever.

jgrahamc3• 16 years ago

I'm tired of HN stories about the TSA.

tomjen3• 16 years ago

Agreed, but on the other hand I just simply hope that they become so hated in the hacker community that they will stop flying and embrace the online presence fully.

lukeqsee7• 16 years ago

Honest question: why?

davidw• 16 years ago

Because it's not the proper forum for it. You have N sites on the internet where you can talk about the TSA / tasers / politics / whatever to your heart's content. Please stop spamming one of the few good sites about startups and hacking with this stuff.

jgrahamc3• 16 years ago

Because I think it's irrelevant to HN.

These stories are all over Reddit and you can go and read about the TSA there. If the stories here were a discussion of technical aspects of the TSA equipment or procedures I'd be interested. But most appear to be scare stories (the rape victim one).

Also, I don't care about the TSA for two reasons: firstly I'm not in the US and the TSA is an internal US body and secondly it doesn't bother me if someone sees a weird black and white picture of me naked.

And I don't want HN to be consumed with a single issue with story after story because then it becomes another site where political/social stories are aired.

jdp2314• 16 years ago

as somebody in Seattle, traveling is a big part of my startup life -- and I think the same is true for a lot of people here.

jgrahamc3• 16 years ago

Fair enough, so campaign against US policy around the world that has put the US in a position where there are people who want to kill its citizens on board aircraft.

Fighting the TSA is dealing with a symptom and not the disease.

RiderOfGiraffes3• 16 years ago

In my personal opinion (as opposed to my professional one) I think stories about the TSA are interesting, but don't belong on HN. The point is being done to death.

So I've started flagging them, simply believing them to be inappropriate. My criterion is that they are of interest, but not specifically to hackers or entrepreneurs. They should be of interest to everyone who travels.

If enough other people are of the same opinion then they'll start dying.

jdp2314• 16 years ago

as a newcomer here, I'm not sure how to respond to this. it seems to me that there's a fair amount of interest in stories on the TSA that have been posted here. and a lot of us here travel, so statistically are at risk here. it's a well-written, short, actionable blog post by somebody who's an expert in the field. why is this so much more off-topic than some of the other things that make the front page?

and RiderOfGiraffes isn't content just to let it go by without reading it the way we all do with some of the HN fave topics that don't personally interest me. no, he also is going to downvote it and announce to everybody here what he's doing. he can downvote, and presumably so can his buddies; as a newcomer, i can't. so my karma is probably taking a hit.

suggestions on how i should respond?

wccrawford• 16 years ago

Has anyone tried to insist on someone of the opposite gender for their molestation?

I'd much rather have a girl grope me than a guy, but I have no idea if they'd allow that.

But then, I have no idea if they'd allow it because I haven't taken a plane flight since they started all the pointless rules. Security is okay, but these pointless rules aren't helping at all, and I refuse to go through them.

Tired of TSA body scans and groping? Things you can do

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