Ask HN: What's your experience living/working abroad?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1884677

by misham • 16 years ago

6 30 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I would like to spend a year or two working abroad, teaching English and/or programming and contracting. I am wondering if anyone has done something like this. What advice you would have: financial, finding work, living arrangements, language skills needed, best places in the world to start off, etc. Also, any resources you can suggest would be great.

Thank you

viraptor• 16 years ago

I don't think you'll get many answers, because your question is simply too vague. The world is huge. What kind of place are you looking for, what are your expectations regarding work, what about contact with other people, what are you trying to achieve, what are your preferences? Every single country would a different answer here.

"Abroad" is a very large and diverse place.

misham11• 16 years ago

I know I left the question very broad. At the moment, I'm researching my options of where to go. I'm not tied to a specific location like Europe or Asia or more specific: working in Madrid vs. working in Tokyo vs. working in Santiago vs. working in Vancouver. Each of these locales have their pluses and minuses.

I can consult numerous guides on living abroad in all kinds of locales as well as read various blogs on this topic.

I am more curious about how the HN community members made it work for them, independent of their locale.

As for "every country would be a different answer", why not have every country listed here?

eru2• 16 years ago

To define what abroad means to you: Where are you coming from?

pdelgallego3• 16 years ago

I has became a bit like a nomad. In the last ten years I have been living in several countries (Spain, Italy, Germany, Romania, USA and now I just move to Denmark)

Some countries are more difficult than others. Work visas can be a pain in the ass, I left the US because the H1B wasn't really a good deal. Languages are always the biggest barrier, but in some countries you can start working even if you only speak English.

Three advices.

- Be positive, there will be times that things go wrong and/or you feel lonely. Don't desperate it take time and effort to build a social network in a different country.

- Keep in touch with your family and friends back home, Sooner than later you will be back.

- Try new things out of your confort zone. The job that I liked best so far was when I restored a very old country hause in Italy.

misham11• 16 years ago

Could you give some advice/tips on getting work visas in the countries you've been?

pdelgallego3• 16 years ago

Well getting a Visa in the USA was really hard, and I just gave up, in the meantime I was working as a contractor and flying in and out of the country every third month to renew my Tourist visa. This is the worst scenario, but it works. I also use this technique during long trips to Thailand and China. If you do this try to hire a medical insurance that cover hospitals and medicines outside of your country. It also a good idea to look ahead and see what vaccinations you are going to need.

I am a EU citizen, so I can work in any country of the EU (Schengen countries actually). Romania was not a full EU country at that time, so I applied for a visa, it was quite easy, but requires a lot of paperwork, in my case the girl I was dating at that time did it for me.

Anyway the first thing that I always do is to call the embassy or consulate of the country that I want to visit at ask for information, each country has its own laws. In some embassies they would provide you the contact address of law firms that are specialist in this.

nickfromseattle• 16 years ago

I taught English in Brazil. I got a TEFL certificate through Bridge-Linguatec. If you are going to teach, I cannot say enough good things about Bridge. It was 40hrs/week for 1 month in Rio De Janeiro. I've seen people attempt and teach English without a TEFL and they dont do a good job. Also immersion is the best way to teach so you do not need to speak the local language.

It will be hard to support yourself by teaching. Through a private company you will earn ~11USD/hr, but they dont pay for transportation time or cost, or the time it takes to create the lesson plan. So the actual figure ends up being more like 8.50USD/2 hours.

You can do much better through private lessons (up to 40usd/hr) but they are hard to get - you usually find your privates by teaching through a company and stealing their clients. (They pay the company about R$75/hr, so if you are good you can convince them to drop the company and pay you R$50-R$60/hr - which is about 25usd-30usd)

I went down there by myself, without speaking the language or knowing a single person and 6 months later I had a big social circle and was somewhat of a group organizer/leader.

It was easily the best 6 months of my life and I realized if I can flourish in Rio De Janeiro - one of the most dangerous cities in the world - without knowing the language, or knowing a single person, I can do anything I want.

jonnycat3• 16 years ago

You may want consider doing a master's program abroad. In many countries (in Scandinavia in particular) the programs are free and you pay just for living expenses, which you should be able to cover with some contracting work. The programs tend to be in English as well.

I did such a master's at Chalmers University in Sweden and it was really a great experience.

phamilton• 16 years ago

How was Chalmers? I lived in Göteborg as a missionary for 2 years, and knew many students at Chalmers.

Where are you working now? Has your masters at Chalmers been beneficial?

jonnycat3• 16 years ago

Chalmers was great, and I miss Göteborg!

I'm working at a startup in Boston now. The masters has been a huge benefit to me, though my job these days doesn't exactly relate to the program I was in (Complex Adaptive Systems).

One interesting feature of the master's programs in Sweden (compared to the US) is that most students do their thesis work with industry, so it might be a good match for people leaning more towards business than academia (ie, those who read HN).

misham11• 16 years ago

I've considered studying abroad, though I'm not sure how competitive the universities are. Good point though, I'll investigate this further. Do you know if after graduating you get a temporary work visa like in US?

jonnycat3• 16 years ago

The universities are generally very good, but of course, it always depends on your specific field of study. Unless you're shooting for an academic career path, I don't think the competitiveness is likely to be an issue. In fact, because of the high level of cooperation with industry, it may a better match than many US universities for somebody interested in business and industry.

I know a number of people who continued to work in Sweden after they graduated without any problems, but I don't know the details of their visa arrangements.

eru2• 16 years ago

I am living `abroad' at the moment. I program in Britain. I have also spend some time studying in Turkey with the Erasmus programme.

Make sure you have enough money, and that you can work legally in the country of your choice. Please learn the local language---if only out of courtesy.

Chile has an interesting programme to lure entrepeneurs. See http://www.startupchile.org/ for details.

misham11• 16 years ago

I've seen that program, it looks like a great opportunity and I'm working on an application right now :)

bigwally• 16 years ago

How old are you and what passport(s) do you have? I know US citizens can get a working holiday visa for New Zealand, this would allow you to get programming work.

Searching various job sites and just playing with the country setting can yield some interesting results. If you have some language skills searching sites like the UN, world bank, IMF etc. can be useful.

Teaching English can be fun, most people I have met doing it tend to do it for six months or so before disappearing into thin air. Although you do get to work a lot less hours.

misham11• 16 years ago

I just have a US passport. Haven't considered New Zealand, but will look at it. Found Wikipedia article with lots of info on working visa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_holiday_visa

ced• 16 years ago

I lived for three years in Asia without working (Turkey, India, China). My standard recommendation is Kunming, China. You can live there very comfortably on 400$/month. There's a good foreigner community, ultimate frisbee, awesome food, and the environment and weather are fantastic. You can teach English if you want to, for 15$/hour. A great meal at a restaurant costs 4$.

In Asia, finding a shared flat is usually pretty straightforward. Just ask students and other young people on the street. They will be more than happy to help and practice their English. Networking with other foreigners also works pretty well, though living with the locals is a good way of learning the language fast.

Email me if you need any help.

misham11• 16 years ago

Thank you for the help offer. I am considering China is one of the destinations, though I was concerned about where to live and work. I'll take a look at Kunming.

elptacek2• 16 years ago

Once you get wherever you are going, find an expat community. Yes, I realise you may be trying to get AWAY from your fellow countrymen, but someone who speaks your language and knows their way around will be invaluable, especially when culture shock sets in.

misham11• 16 years ago

Great point! I am not looking to avoid fellow countrymen, rather to immerse myself in a completely different environment. I can see how having expats to talk to would be of a great benefit.

elptacek2• 16 years ago

I lived in Zurich from 95-97, rooming with an American expat I met through Usenet news. He still lives there, in fact. He knows where all the good shopping is, and he's fluent in German. Very handy.

waru• 16 years ago

I have lived in three cities in Japan for the last three years, and strongly recommend Kyoto. I think most people want to live in Tokyo if they come to Japan, but I think Kyoto is one of the best cities in the world. It's beautiful, has an amazing laid-back atmosphere, and is full of interesting events and things as it is the cultural capital of Japan.

The only problem is that you get a lot more out of Japan if you speak Japanese. Not many people here are very good at English. There's plenty of expats, though. Everyone I know who has visited Kyoto temporarily as a tourist or student has loved it and wanted to stay as long as possible.

There are English teaching jobs aplenty in Japan, but many have low pay and not so great conditions. As long as you're not from America, you can come on a working holiday. (I'm American so I came here with a job on the JET (Japan Exchange Teaching) Program. It pays a lot but usually places you in the country-side, not a sweet place like Kyoto.)

Personally, I think living abroad is one of the best, most educational things you can do for yourself. If I could run my own country, I'd require all citizens to live abroad for at least one year.

Good luck, and have fun on your adventure!

misham11• 16 years ago

That sounds like a great time. I wouldn't mind living in the country side for some time, I'm sure there pluses and minuses to living in a city like Kyoto or living in the country side.

c1sc0• 16 years ago

Have no doubts & just do it. I left my homecountry on a whim to follow a girl & it has been the best decision I've ever made. Countries & people are different, even if it's only 'the country next door'. You can learn a lot by simply changing environment. Being forced to work professionally in a language you don't master 100% can be frustrating at first, but it changes your way of thinking: you learn to be concise & to the point because you have to.

albahk• 16 years ago

If you are going to a country that speaks a different language my advice is to enroll in a beginners language course as soon as you get there. This will give you some structured activity to do for the first few weeks and will aquaint you with others who are probably encountering the same situation. In addition, its a good way to get an instant social circle so you can at least have people to hang out with in a new country.

As a side-effect, you will also get a much deeper understanding of the local people/culture if you have at least a basic understanding of their language.

Ask HN: What's your experience living/working abroad?

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