The Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler Incident

https://www.globalo.com/history-wwii-charlie-brown-franz-stigler-incident/

by ZeljkoS • 8 years ago

75 12 8 years ago

globalo.com

ZeljkoS• 8 years ago

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lp9-cN_Oog

PavlovsCat2• 8 years ago

"If I wouldn't have seen a person at all, I would have shot."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lp9-cN_Oog&t=4m23s

These men were able to give the counsel they gave because they were operating at an enormous psychological distance from the people who would be maimed and killed by the weapons systems that would result from the ideas they communicated to their sponsors. The lesson, therefore, is that the scientist and technologist must, by acts of will and of the imagination, actively strive to reduce such psychological distances, to counter the forces that tend to remove him from the consequences of his actions.

-- Joseph Weizenbaum

But what happens instead is often enough that this "warm, fuzzy" feeling we get from that (awesome) story, is also evoked for the "awesome technology that can make a real impact to save human lives" or "make wars less bloody" etc.

Bottom line is, it cannot think. Even humans too often don't really think about what they are doing, but our machines cannot, even in their brightest moments. Not on the level we're talking about here, anyway. If they could, we would make damn sure it could not "refuse orders".

That is not a bug, but the feature. And one doesn't build a cannon to then not shoot a cannon ball.

skookumchuck• 8 years ago

one doesn't build a cannon to then not shoot a cannon ball.

"Dark Star" comes to mind:

http://www.cinemah.com/altri/war/carpent.htm

mcguire• 8 years ago

"Brown flew more missions before the war ended."

There is a deeply cynical part of me that has questions about this story...

YeGoblynQueenne• 8 years ago

Yeah, well- so did Stigler. He kept flying and probably downed a few allied planes along the way.

What I find strange is that a man who would make such a noble gesture as taking care of a wounded enemy, would not simply refuse to take part in such a senseless, destructive war as WWII, in the first place.

But, people are complex animals with contradicting motives. And we can't see into the future.

jwigg• 8 years ago

We don't always get to choose the wars we fight in, but we always have a choice in the way we fight the battles.

deadbunny• 8 years ago

would not simply refuse to take part in such a senseless, destructive war as WWII, in the first place.

It's one thing to say you object to war, it's quite another be be a conscientious objector when the entire world is at war and the penalty for doing so is getting sent to a concentration camp or death[1] or being ostracized by your family and community[2].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrkraftzersetzung

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/07/british-consci...

zeveb• 8 years ago

What I find strange is that a man who would make such a noble gesture as taking care of a wounded enemy, would not simply refuse to take part in such a senseless, destructive war as WWII, in the first place.

Because he lived by a code. He fought bravely for his nation, but he wouldn't cheat — and for him, shooting a wounded plane was a form of cheating.

I don't really think WWII was senseless (although it was certainly destructive). WWI, yes: it was a completely stupid loss of life. But I think for everyone involved the Second World War was vitally important.

ThrowawayR2• 8 years ago

What I find strange is that a man who would make such a noble gesture as taking care of a wounded enemy, would not simply refuse to take part in such a senseless, destructive war as WWII, in the first place.

Is it so strange that soldiers have traditions of honorable conduct within the bounds of their profession? The military isn't the unthinking brutes many view them as.

davidkuhta• 8 years ago

You're a Good Man, Franz Stigler.

HocusLocus• 8 years ago

The Red Baron spared Snoopy, also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WsbOLin8qc

The part about being able to hear Xmas bells from a roaring airplane is dodgy though

The Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler Incident

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