Clemency petition for Ross Ulbricht reaches 7,000 signatures in less than 4 days

https://www.change.org/p/freerosspetition-we-seek-potus-s-clemency-for-ross-ulbricht-serving-double-life-without-parole-for-a-website-realdonaldtrump-free-ross

by mich_op • 8 years ago

34 55 8 years ago

change.org

JeremyBanks3• 8 years ago

Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did.

Unless these transcripts are entire fabrications, he was rather more hands-on with other criminals than this petition is letting on: https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-bos...

ekianjo6• 8 years ago

The violent charges were dropped during the investigation. In effect, he was not judged based on such allegations.

Wikipedia:

"Ulbricht was charged with money laundering, computer hacking, conspiracy to traffic narcotics,[26][30] and procuring murder.[27] The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31]"

31 refers to: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...

free652• 8 years ago

He was judged (but not charged) on these allegations:

The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31] although the evidence was factored into Ulbricht's sentence.

JeremyBanks3• 8 years ago

Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a website where others did.

The transcripts aren't just evidence of murder, also of his direct involvement with the drug vendors.

DINKDINK3• 8 years ago

The jury found that the state made a convincing argument that he ran an illegal website. The jury was not tasked -- and did not find -- with whether he was guilty of murder for hire. Should the state be able to imprison people for crimes no jury has found them guilty of? I argue no: It is unjust and illegal to sentence someone for allegations without having a jury confirm those crimes.

If the evidence against Ulbricht for murder for hire was good, they would have presented it at trial. The fact is that the prosecutors didn't for some reason and he shouldn't be imprisoned for a crime he hasn't been convicted of.

s73v3r_7• 8 years ago

Judges are permitted, and encouraged, to take into account other evidence around the individual when sentencing. That's why at hearings, you have so many people parading asking for leniency, saying what a good guy the person is. It makes sense that you'd also take into account the other side of that.

notahacker• 8 years ago

But he hasn't been imprisoned for ordering murder for hire, something he apparently still awaits a separate charge for in Maryland.

He's been imprisoned for amongst other things, "continuing criminal enterprise", and the transcripts of him talking about hits were presented at trial as at evidence that this involved preparedness to take extreme measures to protect his narcotics suppliers comparable to those of drugs kingpins, and not simply being an innocuous libertarian-inclined middleman who built a web platform people chose to buy and sell drugs on, or even your friendly neighbourhood pot-grower. His defence team had the opportunity to challenge the validity of that evidence in determining his guilt and sentencing for the crimes he was charged for and evidently did not succeed in doing so. The difficulties with targets being mostly anonymous (and in some cases possibly nonexistent) and the pseudonymous entity who offered supposed hitman services probably intending to scam Ulbricht might have made a prosecution for five specific instances of murder too uncertain to complicate the case with, but as evidence of Ulbricht's willingness in principle to purchase murders was it certainly relevant to the continuing criminal enterprise charge he was convicted of.

The only thing the authorities decided they could certainly convict Al Capone for was tax evasion. This did not mean that Al Capone was unfairly treated, it simply meant the tax charge were relatively straightforward to make stick.

sdhgaiojfsa8• 8 years ago

Well . . . the charges themselves were all for non-violent offenses. But part of the reason why the sentencing was so harsh was that whole thing where he paid to have five people killed.

"I find there is ample and unambiguous evidence that [Ulbricht] commissioned five murders to protect his commercial enterprise," Forrest [the judge in the case] said, leaving out one alleged attempted murder for which Ulbricht was charged in a different case.

-- https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbrich...

ekianjo6• 8 years ago

Maybe you conveniently forget that there was no such proof and that is why the "procuring murder" charge was dropped by the prosecution.

Of the six murder indictments trumpeted by the U.S. government in the days following Ulbricht’s Oct. 2013 arrest, five have fallen off the table and the sixth sits untouched in a separate indictment (legalese for an unproven allegation) that was purposefully left out of the upcoming trial.
Prosecutor Serrin Turner used the murder-for-hire allegations to get the judge to deny bail. Now, Turner isn’t even going to charge Ulbricht with the murders.
Why have six of the most important accusations been left as yet uncharged?
“Maybe you don’t have that proof,” criminal defense attorney Jay Leiderman told the Daily Dot. “Maybe the proof isn’t as good as you thought it was.”
There are a couple of other possibilities that deserve mention. First, there may be informants out there that the prosecution doesn’t want to expose, that they want to use for other cases, so they’re willing to leave half a dozen murders uncharged in order to protect him. Second, they may have determined that a relevant informant is unreliable and can’t be used in trial.
Either way, the murder accusations are buried and uncharged.

from: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross...

rhombocombus• 8 years ago

Apparently in spite of that they still used that evidence in determining his sentencing. I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it it would be the difference between getting pulled over with a lot of drugs vs getting pulled over with a lot of drugs and a lot of guns that you legally own: Even if you only get charged and convicted of the drug possession the case with the trunk full of guns will in all likelihood experience harsher sentencing.

sdhgaiojfsa8• 8 years ago

I quoted someone who was intimately involved in the trial saying there was ample and unambiguous evidence. Your theory on why those charges were not included is one of a number of possible explanations. Another possible explanation was that they felt they had enough to nail him sufficiently on the other charges, and didn't want to bother to prove unnecessary additional offenses.

ChrisLomont2• 8 years ago

Also don't forget he still has a trial pending for the procuring murder charge in Maryland.

nostromo2• 8 years ago

It's strange that sentencing can be increased for crimes you haven't been convicted for.

He wasn't even tried for those charges, which should give us pause.

I'm surprised a judge is even allowed to site "unambiguous evidence" for charges that weren't even brought before the court.

sdhgaiojfsa8• 8 years ago

It's strange that sentencing can be increased for crimes you haven't been convicted for.

I feel like judicial discretion in sentencing is pretty well understood, but I guess it could seem strange if you haven't spent much time reading about or experiencing the legal system.

s73v3r_7• 8 years ago

Defendants are allowed to call "character witnesses" during sentencing hearings to tout what a good person they are, and judges can take that into account. I fail to see why the other way should not be allowed either.

wang_li• 8 years ago

It's strange that sentencing can be increased for crimes you haven't been convicted for.

Sentencing is a range. Based on the facts presented to the judge during trial and through third parties in the sentencing phase (victim statements, letters from your pastor, parents, friends, and teachers, etc.) judges can choose the low end of the range or the high end of the range. It's no more strange to give someone the high end due to unproven statements of assholerly, than sentencing being more lenient for good qualities that have never been proven.

danpalmer• 8 years ago

I’m a little out of the loop here, but wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone?

DINKDINK3• 8 years ago

wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone?

No and that's the legal issue. He's being imprisoned for a crime he crime he hasn't been convicted of.

s73v3r_7• 8 years ago

No, he's not. He's imprisoned for the crime he was convicted of. The judge, having discretion on how much time he should be imprisoned for, took into account the defendant's character.

clicicgtg• 8 years ago

So this guy ordered hit men to murder ppl. Of course his dear mom left this out in the petition...

ucaetano• 8 years ago

"In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn't mind if he was executed, but then you'd be out your $700k."

"I understand, and that is great news about Xin [being kidnapped]. If I understand the situation, he is the one responsible for your loss."

"I would like to put a bounty on his head if it's not too much trouble for you. What would be an adequate amount to motivate you to find him? Necessities like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position."

"It doesn't have to be clean, and I don't think there are any funds to be retrieved"

"Don't want to be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a clean hit done for $80k."

"I've only ever commissioned the one other hit, so I'm still learning this market."

"Excellent work."

So deserving of clemency...

meta_AU• 8 years ago

Listened to American Kingpin on audiobook during a recent trip. It was pretty entertaining if anyone wants more information on this topic.

senoroink3• 8 years ago

For everyone mentioning Ross hiring hit men to kill people. He was never charged with that. Prosecutors commonly fabricate a story to paint a picture of a defendant for the jury. We will never know for sure if Ross actually did this but he's innocent until proven guilty.

mich_op2• 8 years ago

Thanks for that. For those who want to read more, go to https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ (link to Ross's charges and Ross's indictment and more) Ross's charges at trial were all NON-VIOLENT.

gameswithgo2• 8 years ago

that is completely non convincing

gameswithgo2• 8 years ago

my knowledge of him hiring hit men is from reading some leaked text log he kept of his activties. was that not real?

s73v3r_7• 8 years ago

No, no, no, no, no. The chat transcripts were right there for everyone to see. If you're going to claim things were fabricated, you have to prove that.

mich_op2• 8 years ago

Guys, for those who want to bring up the unproven, uncharged murder stuff, please read https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/ Ross's been smeared in the media enough, let's just help the guy.

s73v3r_7• 8 years ago

No, let's not help the guy. He's not deserving of help. And despite you wanting to claim the murder stuff is "unproven and uncharged", the evidence of his involvement is pretty clear.

blitmap• 8 years ago

He tried to have 5 people professionally executed. He broke the law and facilitated others breaking the law because he felt laws took away his personal liberties. He is incompatible with this society and he's dangerous..

ekianjo6• 8 years ago

And meanwhile Paul Le Roux, who is actually a real drug kingpin and who has ordered the murders of several people across the world (with a well proven track of evidence) is not in prison and is working for the DEA.

https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal

Makes sense.

Simulacra• 8 years ago

I think life was much too severe. Yes he did bad things, but people who actually murdered other people get out of prison, why can’t he?

Clemency petition for Ross Ulbricht reaches 7,000 signatures in less than 4 days

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