Ask HN: Do we need caffeine?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1730840

by fr22 • 16 years ago

13 12 16 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Whenever I sleep for less than 8 or so hours, I feel really tired the next day and have trouble getting out of bed. This is true even if I sleep for slightly less, like 6 hours. In fact, even if I sleep for 8 hours, I still get really tired before many of my friends at night.

Many people I know past college sleep 6 or less hours a night and appear to be doing fine. But of these people, 100% are habitual caffeine consumers.

I have read some articles and journals in the past (sorry, no sources off hand) that claim that caffeine comes with a list of side effects, some of which effect your ability to think at the highest levels, and this has always prevented me from becoming a caffeine consumer.

But I have been wondering lately if it is physically possible to be someone who runs off 5-6 hours of sleep a night and never consume caffeine. As hackers who like to work on their own projects before work or late at night, this seems of particular interest to people around here.

Has anyone had any personal success (no myths please) extending the amount of productive, awake hours you get each day? Or do you believe that we need caffeine to live this lifestyle?

grandalf• 16 years ago

I do drink coffee every day, but I haven't found Caffeine to increase my overall amount of wakefulness. It just gives me a bit more control over it. I actually analogize caffeine to a high interest loan.

I think a lot of hackers consume it the way I do. Start out with moderate amounts, then increase the intake week by week for a while, then cut way back (sometimes with some withdrawal symptoms) then repeat. When used this way, I think it's fairly appealing because you're essentially spending future alertness as you go, making for longer stretches or better focus, but then after a while you have to catch up, sleep extra, and re-calibrate to low/no caffeine or else you may end up with stomach irritation, jitters, insomnia, etc.

I'm not sure whether it impairs high level cognitive functioning. It does help me focus better, and I have found that my most focused state is not always my most creative, but I always assumed that's unique to me.

awa• 16 years ago

I have monitored my caffeine intake for quite a while and keep it down to 1-2 cups a day.

For the past week or so, I find it extremely beneficial at around 3-4 pm when it gives me the boost required for me to shift from low energy items to high concentration items.

I guess it might be possible to work without caffeine, but you would have to get a trigger to switch yourself from low energy to high energy zone, good substitutes could be a walk, workout, a game of foosball etc.

MK5• 16 years ago

I have 4-5 a day and I have no trouble in sleeping (sleep well from 1am to 6-7am). Actually, I work better when I wake up early and work during the day then working at night and sleeping in the afternoon. When I was younger, I use to work late, at night, but I was wasting my time procrastinating and doing side-stuffs than just focusing on my task.

rms• 16 years ago

http://lesswrong.com/lw/1w1/effects_of_caffeine/

konad• 16 years ago

Caffeine is a complex substance, its interaction with your body is going to have a personal element.

Some of its properties: it is a diuretic, a vitamin C inhibitor, it increases your blood pressure.

Anadin Extra is merely Anadin with added caffeine.

So you should treat it with appropriate measures. Just saying it affects sleep from its stimulation effects is not the whole story.

Your body has a daily cycle. I would contend that staying up after midnight creates more imbalance than not. "Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise" is not as glib a suggestion as it sounds.

I know from direct experience as my doctor told me "go to bed before midnight and throw away your alarm clock" and I've thanked him for it ever since.

Back to the coffee : I've experiemented with it on myself. My results are "no more than 1 litre fresh ground a day (about 30g of beans I think), all before 14:00hrs".

And if you want to lose weight, drink it right after meals.

fluidcruft• 16 years ago

Just to supplement your caffeine trivia, most over-the-counter pain relievers contain caffeine as a fast-acting component to provide some relief for some types of pain before the medication has a chance to kick in. The "night-time" versions usually just omit the caffeine.

rtra2• 16 years ago

>I know from direct experience as my doctor told me "go to bed before midnight and throw away your alarm clock" and I've thanked him for it ever since.

I wish I could be a morning person. I've been trying for years. I started running first thing in the morning, and I loved it. I would give up sex for it.

What ends up happening is, I start sleeping 4-6h each night and become sleep deprived. After 3-5 months I'm burned off.

Now, my neurologyst, who does sleep research, says it will be probably impossible to make me a morning person. She put me on melatonin and english breakfasts, and on a 10-to-2-AM cycle, and I found out about a new state of being, well rested and fresh.

So, that may not be possibility for everyone...

Riesling• 16 years ago

Most studies I read on caffeine are either inconclusive or they contradict other studies done on the subject.

So there is basically only one good way to find if caffeine works for you. Try it. But do it scientifically an be strict about it. Try different drinking patterns and amounts during different weeks. Write down your experiences. This is important.

From my personal experience it helps me to stabilize my wake and sleep cycle. I am more awake during the day and get more tired at night, which is a good thing. I might add that I only dring 2 cups daily and I never drink coffee after 3:00 pm.

mipnix• 16 years ago

When you're in your twenties, you could eat styrofoam and still function appropriately. I like to believe I can still do what I used to do in my twenties...just can't do it as often.

A twenty minute nap in the middle of the day is hugely beneficial. Just enough to not get into deep REM. I read somewhere, maybe it was apocryphal, DaVinci or Michelangelo would doze off with a spoon in their hand, over a metal platter. When they were just about to fall into deep sleep, the spoon would fall out and hit the platter and wake them up.

We don't NEED caffeine but in moderation it is no more detrimental than working at your desk. http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/showArticle.jht...

noodle• 16 years ago

how refreshed you are when you wake up is more a function of when you wake up relative to your sleep cycles. you can do two things -- set yourself a consistent, permanent sleep schedule (always go to bed and wake up at the same time), or research your own sleep patterns to try and determine about when you hit phase 2 non-REM sleep, and set your alarm clock accordingly.

_delirium• 16 years ago

I know people who drink 5-6 cups a day and are able to be quite productive with strangely little sleep, but it's never worked for me, so either I'm missing something or it doesn't work the same way on me. For me, a single cup of coffee, or occasionally two, can help me feel a bit more awake and energetic. But once it gets to 3+, I get jittery and can't concentrate--- have to get up and go for a walk outside or something.

rtra2• 16 years ago

This seems to be the general opinion of the specialists: The amount of sleep a person needs is not universal. If you don't sleep what you need you'll be harming yourself, and abusing coffee will only worsen things.

Ask HN: Do we need caffeine?

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