How can a guy from Western Europe start a life in Russia/Ukraine?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15797151

by boeien • 9 years ago

8 14 9 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I want to find a job in Russia or Ukraine. I have been fascinated about this part of the world since I was 10. It's my dream to live and work there for at least a couple of years of my life.

I'm willing to go to great lengths to reach my goal. This is why I started learning Russian (currently at A2/B1) and have devoted much of my traveling time (about 9 months in total) in Russia/Ukraine. To succeed I think I need a job first. That's why I quit my job (12 years in financial/banking sector) and applied to 30+ relevant vacancies. This has resulted in only one second round interview.

Considering the investment/return ratio it seems nearly impossible to find a job in Russia/Ukraine.

What else can I do?

danielvf2• 9 years ago

Do you have a pile of expat Russian/Ukraine friends? If so, they’d be the first ones to ask. Otherwise, if you live in a US or U.K. metropolitan area, they are pretty easy to find.

Also, have you visited as a tourist already?

boeien4• 9 years ago

@danielvf - I have a couple of Russian/Ukrainian friends here which have given me tips and have asked around a bit, but that has not lead to anything yet. Also I know some 'countrymen' working there, but with the same result. Perhaps I need to expand my network further, thank you.

I have spent around 9 months across the whole of Russia and Ukraine of which around 2 months each in Moscow, Saint-Petersburg and Kiev.

danielvf2• 9 years ago

Best of luck to you then!

hackermailman2• 9 years ago

It's nearly impossible for Russians and Ukrainians to find a decent job there too, you'll need to work remotely unless you plan on making $3/hr like @Homakov made as a Rails dev in Russia. Get a remote position with your EU citizenship look at boards like jobspresso.co even for just answering support emails.

GFischer• 9 years ago

Ouch, that's worse than salaries here in Uruguay, and I thought we had it bad (I knew Southeast Asia had bad salaries, but I didn't know that extended to Russia too)

poushkar2• 9 years ago

Where is your information coming from? A median salary for an experienced Ruby/Rails dev in Lviv, Ukraine is $45,000-50,000

alltakendamned• 9 years ago

My understanding was that in Kiev a senior dev could easily make ~3000 USD.

hackermailman2• 9 years ago

Could yes, if they had a good network and weren't fired after the probationary period being paid $400-650/mth (avg salary in Ukraine is $200/mth) in order to be replaced by cheap incoming graduate students. Senior software dev at EPAM in Lviv makes $10kUAH/mth to start which is ~$375USD. This is why outfits like Toptal have so many Ukraine/Polish/Russian developers since the lowest wage on Toptal is still at least 2x what they would make domestically.

boeien4• 9 years ago

@hackermailman - that site is a good tip thank you, I will look into it!

There are two reasons why I am (at least for now) looking for a regular job (even though I might have to take a big salary cut). Firstly, with my EU citizenship I can stay only 90 out of 180 days in Ukraine. And my one year Russian business visa has the same condition. So I cannot settle permanently. Secondly, I think working together with the (local) people will be one cultural part I want to experience and will help me to really integrate into the society.

genbit• 9 years ago

few ideas: - find local dev/IT shops and offer your services as a sales/project manager. With your English and if you have a good network from your financial/banking sector - you should be able to find a good fit. - it's hard to find a job in Russia even for locals if you don't have network/connections.

what are your skills? What vacancies are you applying?

boeien4• 9 years ago

@genbit, thanks for your answer.

You could say I am an expert (valuation and risk wise) in Interest Rate Derivatives and various other (more simple) financial products such as FX, loan/depos, stocks and bonds, etc. I have been responsible for translating the business needs into requirements for IT departments and Financial Engineers.

The roles I had were more informal than what you see in the typical business analyst roles in IT companies. I have also been training colleagues in Front Office, Market Risk and Product Control departments on these valuation and risk topics.

As an IT person you might think this is not real programming :-), but I have built various Excel VBA tools for the department.

Education wise I am educated in Investment Theory & Investment Management. Meaning that I should know how pension funds and asset managers should invest their money in the financial markets.

Also, I have been investing and later on trading on various products in the financial markets since the age of 13!, while I am now in my mid thirties.

I have mainly applied to business analyst, financial analyst, business analyst/project manager, risk analyst, investment analyst roles.

poushkar2• 9 years ago

Have you considered applying to privatbank.ua/ru/work? It's quite a modern big bank, I am assuming it should be interesting to work there.

boeien4• 9 years ago

@poushkar: I have considered applying there, but haven't done it yet, because I didn't see any relevant vacancies. Normally the success rate of sending open applications is quite low, but I guess it is worth a try. Thanks for the tip.

How can a guy from Western Europe start a life in Russia/Ukraine?

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