Create React apps using Kotlin

https://github.com/JetBrains/create-react-kotlin-app

by mihau • 9 years ago

163 65 9 years ago

matrix• 9 years ago

Intriguing approach. Anyone know if there's a write-up somewhere from somebody that's tried it? It's always helpful to learn from the gotchas others have run into.

leonya2• 9 years ago

This is all fairly new stuff so there're probably few users outside of JetBrains. Check out https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlinconf-app, it's all written in Kotlin — backend, frontend, everything.

adamnemecek2• 9 years ago

JS as a compilation target is supported by kotlin out of the box. You can use any js framework and IIRC it even understands typescript type annotations. I'm super pumped about kotlin, can't wait to write a whole app, backend and front-end in it.

kevinSuttle2• 9 years ago

Wow. I had no idea. That’s great to know. Thanks for relaying that info. Do you have any further resources you recommend with regards to this?

bitL9• 9 years ago

Can I use this outside IntelliJ (Atom perhaps)? I despise JavaScript, GWT is underwhelming and Kotlin seems like a nice way to bypass these issues + React is becoming a de-facto standard. IntelliJ became too big/slow/feature creeped and I am not having good time with the latest code completion changes, so I am considering dropping it (PyCharm as well) for something more light-weight.

systems3• 9 years ago

Well, I did comment once on the Koltin Jetbrains forum, about how hard they make to download ... just kotlin ... outside of the jetbrains ide

and their response, on their forum, was that they are intentionally make hard to avoid the jetbrains ide while using kotlin

now technically you still can, kotlin is open source, and you can download it standalone, if you search hard enough

i am not really sure, how jetbrains think kotlin will help it long term to increase its sales .. but this seems to be one of their objectives .. they did not create kotlin just for the sake of it (and nothing wrong with that)

bitL9• 9 years ago

I am happy JetBrains became a full-blown real software company (where I count only companies with their own programming language) instead of aping Atlassian (their main competitor), and Kotlin has some interesting ideas. They are closest to Borland we have these days; independent small company with quality development tools. Though the code completion quality dropped so much lately (e.g. in PyCharm it became completely useless) that I am now actively trying to find replacements.

abiox• 9 years ago

and their response, on their forum, was that they are intentionally make hard to avoid the jetbrains ide while using kotlin

do you have a link for this?

vbezhenar2• 9 years ago

I think you misunderstood something. You should use Gradle for standalone builds. You definitely don't have to use Idea.

nameless9122• 9 years ago

React is becoming a de-facto standard

The Vue.JS community would beg to differ.

But yeah, if JetBrains could implement something like the Rust Language Server for Kotlin I would be so happy.

warent• 9 years ago

Agreed with this. I use both React and Vue intensively, day to day. React and Vue both have pros and cons, but I would argue it's actually easier to optimize Vue apps.

Vue's reactive nature actually is superior, because something like Redux requires destroying, regenerating, and messaging around entire objects. This can create serious problems when, for example, trying to use Chrome APIs or manage component renders.

Also, although JSX is nice for developers, it's not friendly to designers. Vue, however, supports single file components that are very designer-friendly.

FWIW, Alibaba began creating their own native framework with Vue called Weex, which is now part of the Apache project. https://weex.apache.org/

bitL9• 9 years ago

I'll take a look at Vue.JS, thanks! Is there a way to use it from Kotlin or some other "sane" language as well?

jhall1468• 9 years ago

Well they can disagree, but React is vastly larger (in both usage and community), so I would say his comment stands.

mlsarecmg• 9 years ago

Beg to differ it can, but as it stands the statement is correct.

http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular...

Even more so when you consider that Vue itself is a React clone underneath. Templates compile directly into createElement calls internally and if you'd strip off Vue's outward complexity, the api surface, the syntax parsers, the observable system, etc., what would remain is React.

hypnos_phi2• 9 years ago

You definitely can. The only major requirement is Java being installed on your machine. This project installs Kotlin compiler and runtime as npm dependencies

glued• 9 years ago

Why use this over TypeScript?

bitL9• 9 years ago

It's for JDK (tooling) addicts.

lomnakkus2• 9 years ago

Kotlin's type system isn't hampered by (runtime) compatibility with the JS object model.

(That would be one reason, I'm sure there might be others.)

lf-non• 9 years ago

Primarily because Kotlin is not a superset of javascript and thus does not inherit the quirks of javascript.

Other than that, if your backend is kotlin then you can potentially share (non JVM dependent) business logic code with the backed. Same goes for android clients. Same interfaces can be be used in client and server.

jrs95• 9 years ago

I've never really found a good use case for reusing business logic, but just reusing types is pretty helpful. Although you can also get that via something like Swagger as well.

maxfurman• 9 years ago

Does this mean that Kotlin -> React -> React Native is feasible too? It's a bit ridiculous on its face, but is there a better way to run Kotlin on iOS? Kotlin is a godsend for Android but if you have to support both platforms one codebase is better

jrudolph2• 9 years ago

Yes, it's called Kotlin Native: https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin-native

Kotlin right now is a serious competitor for a full stack, any device language. An alternative may be F# which has Fable for Browser, Xamarin (mobile) and .net core for server. But Kotlin looks more integrated to me.

Coming from a C#/F# background, Kotlin is really a joy to use.

bitL9• 9 years ago

Yeah, if they play it right they can be one-size-fits-all solution. A question is if they would take risks with such approach as their motto is to "implement stuff that is winning", i.e. copying things others did and that worked well (in commercial sense) and avoid experimental stuff that doesn't bring money in.

ceronman• 9 years ago

It's not production ready yet, but Kotlin Native is probably the way to go for iOS support.

https://github.com/JetBrains/kotlin-native

on_and_off2• 9 years ago

Kotlin Native is what you are looking for.

Or maybe j2Objc

One codebase for both platforms is not necessarily what you want though.

Let me rephrase, it might be what you want for a pretty small app : if you have to create an app for a restaurant with orders and menu, a cross platform solution is probably the best use of your time.

For anything bigger, it becomes a harder sell. All these solutions tend to have the same downsides :

- limited access to new platform features. Especially damaging when Apple tells you that you are going to get featured if you do a Watch app but your SDK does not support that yet.

- one design does not scale well to two platforms with different UX and features.

- one more layer of abstraction to manage; making maintainability harder

I think that there is clearly a space for a cross platform business logic framework though. It tends to be the same on both platform with minor differences. It is a pity that only j2objc seems to clearly target this. k2objc/swift would be awesome.

maxdo• 9 years ago

Don’t mix platform and language. Having same language is just 5% of one platform for iOS android and windows. Weex gives also web mobile support btw.

vbezhenar2• 9 years ago

I'm waiting for Kotlin-based React Native alternative without any trace of JavaScript (in mobile). Kotlin JVM for Android and server rendering, Kotlin Native for iOS, Kotlin JavaScript for Web. Makes more sense than JavaScript everywhere.

chris_overseas• 9 years ago

There's an announcement and some example code for building iOS apps with Kotlin/Native here, including reusing some of the code across iOS and Android:

https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2017/11/kotlinconf-keynote...

danthejam• 9 years ago

So the kotlin code gets compiled to Javascript or to Java bytecode?

jrudolph2• 9 years ago

both: JVM Target -> Java bytecode, Browser Target -> Javascript

uglycoyote• 9 years ago

How is the debugging experience? Is there a debugging experience?

I'm currently a typescript user and I like what VS code has going on with attaching to chrome and providing debugging within the ide. Source maps are okay but a seamless experience in the source language is better. Does the kotlin IDE have facilities for debugging what is going on in the browser?

specialist4• 9 years ago

Being a grumpy old man: it's not programming if I can't set a breakpoint.

stevenwoo• 9 years ago

I can remember having to debug some prototype hardware with LED's attached to address pins, you kids are spoiled these days! :)

bitL9• 9 years ago

Talk to functional programming folks... :D

askvictor2• 9 years ago

You've obviously never done embedded systems programming. Try debugging timing issues with a breakpoint.

hypnos_phi2• 9 years ago

Sourcemaps work. If they doesn’t work, it‘s a bug

yaseenk• 9 years ago

You can debug javascript/typescript in IntelliJ but I think it’s an ultimate edition feature only.

prigara• 9 years ago

You can debug the app in IntelliJ IDEA (and in the browser) and put the breakpoints in the Kotlin code, thanks to the source maps. It's kind of similar to what you get when debugging TS in VS Code, WebStorm or IJ: the IDE will open Chrome and connect to it. But it's not possible to avoid source maps – to debug you still need to compile the app to JS to run in the browser.

jm547ster• 9 years ago

I was trying to get this setup going the other day and found it a little fiddly with some of the Jetbrain’s documentation on Kotlin->JS being outdated it seemed and the sample application they have supplied having some issues with missing dependencies, specifically missing package versions on NPM. I’ll be trying this out straightaway, so many thanks for this!

specialist4• 9 years ago

What's the fix to config mgmt jitter, entropy?

Every time I set aside a few hours to do a React tutorial, I'm defeated by the stack.

I'm very late to docker. I always liked the idea, but didn't have the immediate need. But Python, trying to fix bugs in someone else's project, has now made that need urgent.

After spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME getting the exact right constellation of stuff installed. Switching from macports to homebrew, preinstalling the native libs, wiping all the misc failed python runtimes and starting over, bootstrapping pip, oops I screwed up once with sudo and now a hidden cache under /var/private/root is borking dependency resolution.

FFS.

I really hated Java & maven until I got a nodejs gig.

I really hated nodejs & npm until I had to fix someone else's python.

When does it get better?

Nix everywhere?

bitL9• 9 years ago

I think Vagrant is for reproducible development environments.

acemarke2• 9 years ago

Can you clarify what you mean by "defeated by the stack"? Are you having trouble setting up a React development environment?

If you want to try using React without any build tooling or process at all, the main suggestions are:

- Use an online IDE like https://codesandbox.io , which is a complete online editor that lets you write React apps, view them in the browser, and even make use of NPM packages . CodePen and StackBlitz are other good choices for online editors.

- Create an index.html file with three script tags for React, ReactDOM, and the Babel transformer. There's a pre-written example at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/reactjs/reactjs.org/master... .

If you do want a local project with the right build setup, the official Create-React-App tool will create projects with the build config abstracted away: https://reactjs.org/docs/installation.html

So, while the recommended way to use React is with a full build process (which lets you use the JSX syntax for rendering components, other modern JS syntax, and produces a proper bundle for deployment), you don't have to learn Webpack or Babel as a prerequisite for learning React.

ptx• 9 years ago

But Python ... bootstrapping pip ... When does it get better?

In Python 3. The pip and venv stuff is built-in and works much more smoothly. (But I realize that this doesn't help you on an old Python 2 project.)

Create React apps using Kotlin

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