World Ice Theory and the Supernatural Imaginary of the Third Reich

http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/song-ice-and-fire

by Vigier • 9 years ago

39 62 9 years ago

cirgue• 9 years ago

By providing all the necessary clues to convince his audience that what they saw was truly “scientific,” Hörbiger’s doctrine “produced sensations of authenticity that made the distinction between ‘serious’ scientific work, committed to objectivity and rationality, and mere dramatic banter about it almost impossible, at least for the broader public,”

Did 'sensation of authenticity' leap off the page to anyone else? That is the exact phrase I would use to describe most enterprise sales decks.

eronhp• 9 years ago

And a lot of TED talks too.

s_kilk• 9 years ago

Sometimes referred to as "truthyness", where something has the texture of plausiblity or truth, and fits with the viewers biases.

api5• 9 years ago

Interestingly the modern alt-right, which is largely a 21st century post-social-media rebranding of Nazi ideology, has its own very strange occultism:

https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com

https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com/smug-pepe-sure-makes-...

There's a lot more. The rabbit hole goes deep and gets extremely bizarre.

There's also a strong affinity between the alt-right and some of the more bizarre currents of conspiracy theory: the flat Earth movement, Apollo hoax conspiracies, weird alternative theories of history like ancient alien wars, and the absolute wackiest 9/11 conspiracy theories (e.g. controlled demolition with energy weapons from space). You can see this very clearly if you look at overlapping participation and moderation of various Reddit forums and at the similarity of jargon and propaganda.

Historically it seems like totalitarian movements usually employ what we might term "radically anti-rational bullshit" as signaling. The Soviets did it too with Lysenkoism and statistical/mathematical quackery designed to bolster Lenin's theories.

It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason.

nerdponx• 9 years ago

I would say it's the other way around, that people who are fascinated by the occult are liable to get sucked in by the alt-right. Same category of extreme paranoia.

alacombe9• 9 years ago

... and they say that "openness" is a virtue of the left ;-)

dguaraglia4• 9 years ago

Although I hate drawing the parallel (Godwin's Law and all that) but the current "conspiracy right" delves into the "occult" to a certain extent: there are myths about Democratic operatives taking part in human sacrifices or running child-sex rings, publishing lists of confirmed kills!!! by this or that person and a consistent narrative of the (((globalists))) (read: Jews) and "deep state" impeding their current Savior from achieving greatness. Some people like Alex Jones go even further into full-on crazy territory.

Unfortunately it's becoming a mainstream part of politics.

InitialLastName• 9 years ago

Speaking as a lizard person, we're not all bad.

rch• 9 years ago

The left is just as bizarre. Here in Boulder people seem to be graduating from yoga to astrology to drinking 'structured water' from bottles charged with 'orgone energy' at a surprising rate.

It seems like overkill to use modern marketing techniques to twist people's cognitive facilities, ultimately just to sell more stretchy pants.

dguaraglia4• 9 years ago

The "new age" thing has been going on for a really long time. That these people happen to be "the left" is neither here nor there. The Alex Jones phenomenon of "occult forces are out to kill us all" has only become mainstream now. There's a huge difference between people drinking "magical water" and preparing for apocalypse (which they are told is coming any day now, in the hands of "the libruls") by buying racks full of guns.

api5• 9 years ago

I wasn't excluding the left-- hence my comment about Soviet ideology. I was making a general point about the affinity that exists between totalitarianism and irrationalist ideas in other areas and how totalitarianism often adopts these ideas for propaganda and signaling purposes.

That being said I do find the alt-right more alarming than typical run of the mill left-leaning woo woo. The latter isn't advocating abolition of the constitution and violence against (((minorities))) (Jews, blacks, etc.).

defen• 9 years ago

It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason.

Esoteric knowledge is definitely used for in-group signalling in elite "alt-rightish" affinity groups like frogtwitter. You gain status by having extensive knowledge of that stuff (e.g. relating current events to the Corpus Hermeticum) and posting about it semi-ironically. Then it filters down to the less-educated elements and gets taken seriously.

LyndsySimon5• 9 years ago

^ this is an excellent summary.

I was on vacation for a week recently, and when I got back I had no idea what people were talking about for a couple of days.

pnathan• 9 years ago

Quite so. The cranks are coming out in force, unfortunately. Historically they have been generally rejected in the US, but with the increasing populist tendencies of the last decade, their reach has grown and gullible people are suckered in.

But it's not confined to the Right, I assure you.

bbctol2• 9 years ago

As weird as all the pepe stuff can get, there are massive differences of scale and seriousness when it comes to alt-right memes vs. Nazi mysticism. I don't retreat too far into "it's just trolling," and there really are some interesting people on the internet sincerely worshiping chaos gods, but it's much more of the case that a movement built on transgression and confusion enjoys using weirdness as a tactic compared to the Nazis sincere and orderly pseudoscience.

LyndsySimon5• 9 years ago

First, some background - I'm an anarcho-capitalist, so when it comes to matters of policy I have as much issue with one side of the US political spectrum as another. I am explicitly not taking sides here.

Though I live today in a very blue community I was born and raised in a rural red state. I associate more easily with conservative Republicans because that was the community in which I was immersed during my childhood and as a young adult. I feel like I know how they "tick".

While there are certainly factions within the rising right wing that fit this description (e.g.: National Policy Institute, American Freedom Party), the vast majority of those who would be described as or even self-identify as "alt-right" are not part of them. They share very little with them aside from being associated with them by their political opponents.

Historically it seems like totalitarian movements usually employ what we might term "radically anti-rational bullshit" as signaling. The Soviets did it too with Lysenkoism and statistical/mathematical quackery designed to bolster Lenin's theories.

I don't know anyone, of any political persuasion, that would disagree with this.

While it's easy to categorize the behavior of the right in this way, most on the right would do the same with the so-called "social justice" movement. Many would include those who advocate public policy to address climate change as well.

It seems to serve both for social signaling within the movement and as a straightforward ideological stance on the profound and radical rejection of reason.

In my experience it is almost entirely signalling. The distinguishing characteristic of the "new right" is that they wear the labels applied to them in derision as badges of honor. See: http://sjwinsult.com/

clock_tower2• 9 years ago

Someone had remarked that the SS is what you'd get if the Pentagon hired the Church of Happyology to create a new branch of the military. I thought this was hilariously on-point; but then I refreshed the page to see more discussion, and the comment was gone. Are the clam spirits angry today?

World Ice Theory and the Supernatural Imaginary of the Third Reich

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