HTC Sues Apple for Patent Infringement

http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=129616&lang=1033

by mikeknoop • 16 years ago

88 52 16 years ago

mikeknoop3• 16 years ago

As Jason Kincaid of TechCrunch points out: "HTC recently forged an agreement with Microsoft that would 'provides broad coverage under Microsoft’s patent portfolio for HTC’s mobile phones running the Android mobile platform'."

I wonder what role that agreement plays into this suit.

naner• 16 years ago

I wonder how much money Microsoft is making by providing patent coverage for Linux. They got Amazon to pay up, too. God knows how many companies have been coerced into paying these absurd licensing fees to MS just because they use Linux somewhere. I guess TomTom is an example of what could happen when you don't play ball.

mikeknoop3• 16 years ago

From a strategic point of view for Microsoft (and assuming the assertion in the OP is true), why would Microsoft be willing to help HTC (and consequently, Android) considering that Microsoft has a competing platform due for arrival later this year?

briansmith• 16 years ago

Maybe they were desperately looking for patent protection and Microsoft was the cheapest vendor willing to sell it to them.

tzs2• 16 years ago

At the same time Microsoft was rumbling at TomTom over patents, TomTom was rumbling at Microsoft over patents. TomTom's an old hand at suing over patents, having sued a few other GPS makers and users.

Only after about a year of negotiation over cross licensing failed to reach an agreement did both sides file suit. Yes, Microsoft got their suit filed first, by about a month or so. However, it takes several months to prepare to file a patent suit, so it's clear both sides had been working on it for a while.

As far as I've been able to find, there's no public information as to who actually was the initial aggressor between Microsoft and TomTom. But given that up to that time Microsoft had not sued anyone over software patents, and has not sued anyone since then over software patents, and that TomTom had sued people over software patents (in Eastern District of Texas, even), it seems likely that TomTom was the aggressor.

kixxauth• 16 years ago

Why isn't Google throwing a line to HTC as well? Maybe they don't have anything to help them?

DrSprout• 16 years ago

Maybe HTC doesn't need their help?

HTC said when this first showed up that Apple's lawsuit caught them off guard, so it naturally took a bit of time to figure out what patents Apple was infringing on.

marketer• 16 years ago

I'm glad HTC is doing this. Since the iPhone came out, Apple has developed this smug godlike aura and it's time that someone stood up against them.

roc• 16 years ago

You realize it's just the patent system doing what it normally does, right?

A sues B, generally to achieve some tangentially-related goal. Then B counter-sues A, to try to shore up their position in the inevitable settlement and cross-licensing deal. All of this, regardless of the relative merits or correct-ness of either side.

About the only time these things diverge from the normal path, is when one side is suing to essentially put another out of business. And that's hardly the case here.

From our position it's as irrational to say HTC is "standing up" to Apple bullying as to say Apple is standing up to Google/HTC "ripping off" their technology.

TheBurningOr• 16 years ago

> About the only time these things diverge from the normal path, is when one side is suing to essentially put another out of business. And that's hardly the case here.

I'm not so sure about this. By going after the biggest Android manufacturer, youngest and smallest major smartphone manufacturer and a foreign company, It sort of seems that Apple does want to put HTC out of business, at least in this field.

butterfi• 16 years ago

I'm not as glad. HTC develops a compelling product that can 'win' on its on merits. This kind of patent action only serves to reinforce the kind of patent trolling done by, IMHO, companies who can't compete on product merit alone.

Yes, yes, I know there are compelling reasons why HTC must protect their patents if they are applicable.

moultano• 16 years ago

>Yes, yes, I know there are compelling reasons why HTC must protect their patents if they are applicable.

I'd think the main compelling reason is that Apple has already sued them.

mikeknoop3• 16 years ago

Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/5537316) is claiming they've seen the 5 patents which HTC is allegedly suing with.

"Two are related to power management, two are over personalized phone dialers, and one's over a telephone dialer with easy access memory—pretty menial stuff, compared to everything Apple is slamming HTC with."

apgwoz• 16 years ago

Does it matter how menial the patent claims are? If Apple is indeed infringing, then HTC has the choice to offer a license at whatever cost they want, do they not?

HTC is in the same boat. If HTC is found to have violated any of Apple's patents, Apply too can slam HTC for licensing fees or whatever else.

rubyrescue• 16 years ago

i've been involved in a few of these... it matters because ultimately it could come down to a jury trial and then a judge's decision regarding damages. how 'big' the claims are matters to the real people making the decisions in the courtroom. they're not going to award billions of dollars of damages for a minor claim, for instance, and claims can sometimes be worked around, so often the damage done to the infringed party is what's at stake, plus penalties. (admittedly, this is an oversimplification)

i've sat in a room full of people discussing these issues ad nauseam and i can tell you with 100% confidence that this is like a poker game, the size of the chip stack affects the confidence, timing, positioning, etc, of the players throughout the whole game. if one side has a great set of claims and the other doesn't, it definitely matters.

ergo982• 16 years ago

Apple is suing HTC over a swipe unlock, power management, and various other menial stuff.

ajross• 16 years ago

Don't forget "bouncing" the display when it reaches the end of the scrollable area! And of course the stunning innovation of holding two fingers down at once.

technomancy• 16 years ago

They're software patents. They're trivial by definition.

teilo• 16 years ago

Is it too much to hope for that there will be a back-room mediating deal where, essentially, both companies drop their existing patent lawsuits and grant one another license to the patents in question? I think that would be better for everybody.

Then they can compete on the merits of their respective products. What a novel idea.

protomyth2• 16 years ago

If the patents are what HTC says they are then it will probably come down to a cross-licensing situation. I would expect Nokia / Apple to happen the same way. People are adding a little too much drama into this stuff.

mechanical_fish• 16 years ago

Yes, what do you mean "too much to hope for"? It would be downright weird if anything other than a cross-licensing deal came out of this. All these suits and countersuits are just the lawyerly version of a threat display:

http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=...

loginx• 16 years ago

The real issue is that it makes it impossible to compete if you don't have a patent portfolio of your own. You couldn't start building your own handset and incorporate features every other phone on the market has, because you have nothing to fight with when you get sued, thus ensuring that only large corporations can sell those products.

noonespecial• 16 years ago

Hope for? That's nothing more than the formation of a rent-seeking cartel. It's decidedly not better for any small newcomer that wants to make a smartphone whos not in the cartel.

Its the exact opposite of competing on the merits of their respective products. Its attempting to never have to do so again.

megablast4• 16 years ago

It is called a cross-licensing deal. It is what Intel/AMD have, plus 1000s of other companies.

If you are a newcomer, you are probably going to get HTC or some other company with a deal like this to make it for you.

But yes, it does make it hard to get into. Notice Dell and Apple have managed to get into this space in the last few years, so not impossible.

kylec2• 16 years ago

I must admit, I have a morbid curiosity to see what would happen to Apple's stock price if they were ordered to cease selling the iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch.

jobeirne• 16 years ago

Why the curiosity? You're unsure of what would happen?

kylec2• 16 years ago

What, yes, but I'm curious about the degree to which it happens and the aftermath of that.

megablast4• 16 years ago

I doubt that would ever happen, Apple would never let if get that far. If they do end up in court, and it looks like it is heading in that direction, Apple would pull out. These devices are just far too important and profitable to Apple.

The greatest shame would be if any Apple/HTC/Nokia device was banned for import/sale.

catch23• 16 years ago

Probably the same if Microsoft were ordered to stop shipping Office/Windows. And since it never happened, we'll never know!

tzs2• 16 years ago

Microsoft was ordered to stop selling Word after losing to i4i's patent suit.

MWinther• 16 years ago

Not that they necessarily say that much, but it would still be interesting to see the names of the patents in question.

MikeCapone• 16 years ago

My question: How is any of this (from either side) benefiting the users?

not_an_alien2• 16 years ago

It's not, but it's something all companies resort to due to the failure that is the current patent system.

TallGuyShort• 16 years ago

I think he's asking because HTC said they were doing this to (among other things) protect their customers

DeusExMachina• 16 years ago

HTC believes the industry should be driven by healthy competition and innovation that offer consumers the best, most accessible mobile experiences possible,” [...] We are taking this action against Apple to protect our intellectual property, our industry partners, and most importantly our customers that use HTC phones.”

Please, stop this bullshit! What you really meant was "we are suing Apple because they sued us", just like Apple sued Nokia because Nokia sued them.

Please forgive my rant, but I just can stand companies telling they believe in healthy competition while they are suing competitors trying to shut off the competition.

ergo982• 16 years ago

>Please, stop this bullshit! What you really meant was "we are suing Apple because they sued us"

Which is pretty much exactly what they said.

Your rant is kind of misdirected. HTC's countersuit is basically saying "Frig off Apple and fight us in the market, not in the courts", so yeah they are saying they believe in competition.

devinj2• 16 years ago

"We are taking this action against Apple to protect [...] our customers"

HTC Sues Apple for Patent Infringement

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