Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/07/apple_developing_flash_alternative_named_gianduia.html

by mikecane • 16 years ago

77 42 16 years ago

Mazer232• 16 years ago

So apple bought sproutCore right? How is this different? or is it a next step from sproutCore?

BSeward• 16 years ago

Apple has a few frameworks floating around, internally and out. See http://rentzsch.tumblr.com/post/286536824/apples-myriad-java...

grinich• 16 years ago

I was playing with PastryKit for a while.

http://michaelgrinich.com/pastrytweets

You can grab the code here. http://github.com/grinich/pastrytweets

motvbi• 16 years ago

Apple didn't buy SproutCore. Although they have contributed to the project. They use the framework for MobileMe and iWork.com.

jeiting• 16 years ago

They hired Charles Jolley, founder of Sprout it, which developed SproutCore. The framework itself is open source but is sheparded by jolly at apple, along wih his team.

asnyder• 16 years ago

This is definitely one of the fluffiest pieces I've ever read. There are numerous client-side frameworks as this piece mentions, but none of them really replace flash. Sure, the general development community is now finally coming to accept that there are clearly numerous use cases that flash was unnecessary for, but that doesn't replace flash.

We've had the ability to have rich internet applications in our browsers since 2005. There are literally hundreds of client-side frameworks, but I guess since Apple is creating one, all of a sudden it warrants a mention. All of the apple applications that were mentioned could've easily been done in any of those. Why only mention Cappucinno, and Sproutcore? What do they have to with flash? It's just complete fluffery, very frustrating.

derefr5• 16 years ago

So, what's this other thing we need to have to be able to replace flash? What else is flash currently doing for everyone that's so unique?

liuliu• 16 years ago

vector animation engine? I don't know much about SVG though.

Mazer232• 16 years ago

My guess is that the flash tool-chain will be a lasting reason that it won't get instantly replaced by any of these new frameworks. There are a ton of developers and designers out there that know how to build flash and don't want to start learning new tools in unproven frameworks.

That said, I think the more and more bloated nature of adobe's tools will become a huge weakness. Developers will be able to build tools for much more specific work-flows that feed directly into specific use cases. Sproutcore and this one seem to be aimed at the 'desktop feel' app development for html5, I'm guessing there will be other frameworks and tools for creating games, vector animations, silly interactive websites, etc. Each of tho uses should grow it's own tool/framework specific for the task

tomsaffell• 16 years ago

Capturing webcam and microphone input.

buster4• 16 years ago

Delivering a cross platform environment that provides the same functionality with more features.

Don't get me wrong here, the first sentence may sound as Flash "fanboyism", but i think it is rather objective. Let me explain:

- Flash Apps work on Windows/MacOSX/Linux/smartphones/tablets with the exact same API and no difference in implementation of that API (in contrast to IE/Webkit/Opera/Firefox that implement different features and even differ in details when it comes to the implementation of HTML5/CSS3)

- Flash offers additional APIs that are not available in HTML5 (Webcam access for example)

- taking this further, Air enables cross platform installers, integration into the OS, even more APIs

And this can be explained really good, because Adobe can implement new features much faster than HTML standard committees can agree on new HTML features (plus a variety browsers that need to support those). So this shouldn't surprise anyone. It's wishful thinking when people claim that HTML5 can replace Flash in _every_ regard (and here i mean 100% alternative, which can't be true if you just take the webcam access). HTML5 can replace the majority of todays Flash applications. At least i can't think of many web sites that depend on Flash that wouldn't be possible with HTML5 (Websites that make use of Webcams being one of them). And i hope all those navigational elements, advertisings and whatever people chose Flash for, will be replaced with proper HTML in the future! To implement a full fledged multimedia website is harder with HTML5 than with Flash, imo (think of cross browser compliance and difference in performance between browsers).

Just to make my standpoint clear: I would not create a website with Flash nowadays, even if it means less effort. HTML5 is for the web. Flash should die. The "fact" that it can be extremely difficult to create those web sites remains, though.

Regarding the article:

Am i missing something or isn't this just another JS-framework? There are already hundreds of them out there, why is this labeled as "Flash alternative"? Unless i am missing a point this looks like nothing fundamentally new. Seen in the light of the headline every JS-framework is a Flash alternative.

michaelneale• 16 years ago

The scene graph? I think that is what they call it - but that is probably about all (that and the tools that go with it)

cjoh2• 16 years ago

Man, I first read this as Apple developing flash alternative named "Giardia:" http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/Giardiasis/factsht_g...

cjoh2• 16 years ago

The other end of this joke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianduja_(chocolate)

cubicle67• 16 years ago

That's ok. I read it through somewhat bleary eyes as 'glandular' (as in fever)

petercooper3• 16 years ago

Now it seems even more odd that Apple doesn't bother to include Lucida Grande on the iPhone or iPad, since that forms the cornerstone of Cocoa's interface. On the iPhone and iPad, they seem to use Helvetica instead (which is far less suited for small text).

mattparcher• 16 years ago

I'm not sure I understand. As much as I love Lucida Grande, Cocoa != Lucida Grande. Rather, Mac OS X : Lucida Grande :: iPhone OS : Helvetica.

petercooper3• 16 years ago

I see Helvetica on the iPhone platform as more of an aberration (and possibly merely the result of license bickering, not through serious consideration). It doesn't seem to make any sense to switch to it on the portable devices. This has been partially mocked here: http://blog.cocoia.com/2008/swiss-interface-syndrome/

Anyway, the screenshot of the Apple booking interface shows Lucida Grande in use. When viewed on the iPad/iPhone, it'll have to drop back to Helvetica instead of the intended font. Hopefully Apple will see sense, though, and add Lucida Grande to OS 4.0 or beyond since its absence makes little sense.

joubert2• 16 years ago

If they were, I'm pretty confident it wouldn't be called that.

hugh3• 16 years ago

It is a pretty awful name. If you're going up against something with a name as catch as "Flash" you'll need something that doesn't sound like an intestinal parasite.

alextgordon• 16 years ago

Not that I disagree, but this is from the company that bought us the "Mighty Mouse".

joubert2• 16 years ago

and magic mouse (which I love)

callmeed• 16 years ago

If Adobe was smart they would snap up 280North or a similar company now—and offer it as part of their new html5/RIA initiative asap.

Kilimanjaro• 16 years ago

We don't need flash alternatives, we need support for SVG and canvas. SVG is a fine alternative to flash and it is supported by all major browsers.

And browser APIs to fill the voids where flash also exceeded its animation-only competency, like sockets (we already have them) and device control (cams, mics, etc)

rmason• 16 years ago

So this is going to be write once run once? Or in other words run just on Apple hardware? Or run as speedily as iTunes or QuickTime does on the PC? Good luck with that!

sandofsky• 16 years ago

The real Flash "killer" is whatever commercial product they release to compete with the Flash artist tools.

The only people who care about Flash are those with investments. Artists don't want to relearn tools, or worse; their worst fear is writing code as a replacement for an animation timeline. The businesses that employ these artists are happy with the existing pipeline, and any switch in platform looks like a huge risk.

Every unbiased developer I talk to perceives a move away from Flash as a better Internet. It seems we don't move for the same reason we're using QWERTY rather than Dvorak keyboards. Regardless of their motivation, Apple pushing Flash toward obsolescence is a net win.

The tipping point will be when someone, maybe even Adobe, releases a product identical to existing tools.

Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia

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