Too old to start web programming career?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=126644

by leonardc • 18 years ago

35 33 18 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

hi folks, i'd really appreciate anyones feedback/advice to help me out of a career choice dilemma. last year after a brief(ish) spell of unemployment i started a masters in e-business to boost my career prospects. i am now 33 and about to graduate soon. thing is, i really started to get into the programming side of things - learning php, mysql, javascript etc, and starting to teach myself python and unix programming. Now, i can't see myself going back to a business oriented career having tasted such delights. should i leave the web dev/programing to the bright young things or can i find a niche for myself somewhere? getting experience is more important than the salary. all comments/opinions/exhortations to wake up and smell the coffee will be very gratefully received. thanks in advance.

davidw2• 18 years ago

Why don't you combine the two?

IMO the people who do the best are those that have more than one area of expertise. In other words: no business wants to buy software. They don't care about it at all. What they want is something that will help their business, and someone who knows both the software and the business is better able to connect the two.

BTW, ditch the PHP and Mysql and look at some other stuff like Ruby on Rails, Django, Postgresql, and, yes, Javascript. Some PHP won't hurt, but I don't think it's the "state of the art", although you can certainly still get things done with it.

butterfi2• 18 years ago

While ruby and python are definitely more sexy (and by extension rails and django), I think its a mistake to dismiss PHP and MySQL has not being worthy of study. Take a look at the job boards and see what people are looking for. I think you'll see far more employers looking for MySQL and PHP skills then Postgres and Ruby/Python. For example, It seems like Drupal developers can write their own tickets right now (drupal is a CMS written in PHP/MySQL). You might be better off looking into CMS/frameworks like Drupal or Django.

As a 42 year old developer, I say go for it. You have other skills you bring with you. Frankly, these days I look for people who demonstrate maturity and life-long learning skills more then I do a specific skill-set.

davidw2• 18 years ago

Quantity isn't an indicator of quality.

edw5192• 18 years ago

"i can't see myself going back to a business oriented career having tasted such delights"

You've already answered your own question. Continue tasting.

bdfh42• 18 years ago

Go for it - I started as a developer at 30 (that was when the Apple II was the latest thing and well before the IBM PC) and I continue to enjoy the excitement and satisfaction that is to be found as a developer who always has something to learn. Got a few good years left in me yet as well.

hufton2• 18 years ago

Go for it! It's all about passion; if you are passionate about what you do you have something 95% of other folk are missing. And work won't seem like work, it's more like fun. I'm in a similar position; age 38 and with a 15 stint in the finance industry behind me. I've always loved programming, but never thought of myself as an 'enthusiastic amateur'. Now I'm about to take the plunge and couldn't be happier.

hufton2• 18 years ago

sorry, that should be ".. never thought of myself as more than an enthusiastic amateur .."

nostrademons• 18 years ago

It's harder to compete on technical merit, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

I'll quote Drucker again here: "Concentrate on what you're good at." At 33, you've probably got a decent amount of experience in the business world, plus some additional formal education. Work on finding and solving problems that aren't apparent to the young turks just out of college, because they don't have the work experience. I'm 26 and I've had 2 salaried jobs, both in the computer field. There are whole industries that I've never worked in - those are probably ripe for a web solution, because you don't have swarms of college kids picking over every opportunity.

Don't expect to compete in the web2.0/social networking sphere. The kids that are 2 years out of college still have friends in that demographic, they grew up with the technology, and so they know more about both the technology and the market. Look for markets that all the young technophiles know nothing about.

johnrob• 18 years ago

You are spot on. I've always found this frustrating - hackers beat their heads on walls looking for new consumer ideas, while deep in the industries there are relatively simple problems left and right. I think the frustration is on both sides - hackers would love to solve these hidden problems, and the business folks would love someone to make their lives easier.

PG said it best, "build something people want": it's the hardest thing for a start up to do. So the idea of all these hidden opportunities just kills me. If someone wants to start a website that publishes these type of ideas, you'll have me as a user.

ojbyrne• 18 years ago

44 years old when I built digg. Is that competing in the web2.0/social networking sphere?

The stuff that happened after we were funded (I've left the company) probably had a lot to do with my age, and the type of conventional wisdom (i.e. bullshit) that is out there and espoused by some of these commenters.

Remember that on the internet, noone knows you're a dog (or an old dog).

m0nty• 18 years ago

As a 41-yr old hacker (and late-comer to the game; I didn't start until I was well into my 20s) I'd just like to thank you for sticking up for us "old-timers." It really bothers me that people think you're past it when you get past 35 or so. 'Scuse me if I'm not dead yet and have no intention of acting as though I am.

My project is at http://surftrackr.net/ It won't ever make me rich, but (a) that's not the point, and (b) it's my way of making a contribution. While there are programmers out there who can do a better or worse job than I have, I can guarantee the differentiating factor is not their age.

cstejerean• 18 years ago

I think it makes sense to build something that you want to use personally (solves one of your problems), or at least solve a problem that you understand well. It's certainly possible to do neither but I think you're more likely to fail then.

It has nothing to do with age.

The advice about not trying to compete in the "web2.0/social" market I think is a good one regardless of age. It's far too crowded with "me too" startups and most business models rely only on advertising or hopes of getting bought before loosing too much money.

leonardc2• 18 years ago

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies. the fact that they are so positive has really given me a much needed boost of confidence. Thanks for the practical suggestions as well. Once again, thank you!

edw5192• 18 years ago

I come here every day, not so much for the confidence (I think I already have it), but for the "boost". Glad to see it's working for you too.

raju2• 18 years ago

Sorry, don't mean to spam this conversation, but talking to a great community like YC News is a step in the right direction. I have posed my end of questions, and have had others answered as part of conversations that others answered, and have always come away with supportive and informative suggestions from like minded folks.

To be honest, I have had the same question in my head for some time now, and your question helped me too. Thank you.

iamelgringo• 18 years ago

If you're too old at 33, then I'm too old at 34. :) I'm an ER nurse by trade, but I'm one or two semesters shy of finishing my degree in CS. I'm going back and getting in touch with my inner geek after years of having a "safe" job. I was talked out of getting into CS in 1992, because "there's not that much need for computer programmers". Sigh... I'd only recently moved to the states from overseas, so I believed them. Argh!

Anyway, what I'm focused on now is web development. There's nothing to stop us from learning this stuff. All of the important training materials for these technologies are on line or on Safari. There is a pretty steep learning curve, and expect it to take a while to become really proficient at it, but go for it.

And, I've spent the last 3 years paying off debt, moving to Silicon Valley, and getting ready to be a founder as soon as I'm done with school. So, don't let the kids scare you off. Dive on in, the water's great. :)

wallflower• 18 years ago

I admire your courage. It's so easy to stay in the comfort zone of a daily/weekly/yearly/ad to boredom routine (for example, do you know anyone who drives the same route and parks in the same parking spot in a big lot.. Everyday?) Moving your career is bold and the nay-Sayers probably envy your courage and determination. As someone famous wrote - most people die at 30 and are buried later. Negativity criticism etc. is the easy path to take - anyone can point out a problem but how many will fix it.

I firmly believe that we as humans all are creative. And that expressing our creativity, our imagination, our mind allows us to be less unhappy. I like programming because it is a creative form of writing - taking half-baked requirements and turning it into something people might find of value/help their daily job/life. I read once that the IDE or your editor is like a word processor for abstraction - the building and invariancing of data structures.

My point here is it sounds like you enjoy programming at an emotional, mental, and maybe even spiritual level. I think you'll do fine - the young bright things probably are still learning that there is more to life than technology. My second point here is you won't regret taking on this suite of opportunities.

And when you talk about your job, please don't tell them you are a programmer. Ask the person asking "what do you do for a living" what they do when they use a computer - and tell them you make that stuff work (and ask them if they have any ideas of stuff that could be useful for them)

mathogre• 18 years ago

I turned 50 last September. Ten years earlier I started playing with Linux and learned very quickly I knew nothing about Unix. In 5 months I was rolling my own kernels, mainly out of need; apmd wasn't in the default Red Hat kernel, and I needed it for my laptop. A few months after that I was one of Those People who helped bring Linux into the corporate world when people could get fired for having done so.

Five years ago I proposed - and was awarded - a research project at work (internal r&d money). I chose at that time to use Python to develop a tool to design airspace for air traffic control purposes. I didn't know Python other than having played with it in console mode. In my experience it was the language to use, and it worked like a champ for us.

I'll "retire" in 15 years. When I do so, I fully intend to be employable at that time (re: current).

Start now. Get into it. 33 isn't too old to start, but it is too young to stop.

Btw, I have a BS in applied math from a small state college - Keene State College in NH. Degrees from good schools might help, but passion for what you do can go a very long way. (^_^) Go for it and good luck!!!!

cstef• 18 years ago

I am going to graduate at 40. If you can code, you can code.

rmason• 18 years ago

Quite frankly 33 is young. I never touched a computer until I was over 30 and yet I was there at the beginning of the PC revolution.

Did my first startup at 46 and in my fifties I am still going strong. Long as you are committed to life long learning then age is as they say but a number.

aneesh• 18 years ago

Maybe some employers might mind (and you don't want to work for them anyway), but users definitely don't care how old the person that wrote the code was. Hack away!

noonespecial• 18 years ago

The computer is nothing more than a thought amplification tool. It doesn't care how old you are.

Its more important what state the mind is in than what body the mind is in!!!

Xichekolas• 18 years ago

Never.

troels• 18 years ago

You need passion to succeed. As long as you are thrilled by web programming, I don't think your age should be a problem. The only problem you might face, is that you'll have to struggle a bit in the beginning. That's true for everybody, but it's easier for a teenager to live on an underpaid wage, than for someone who has a mortgage and kids to feed (Assuming you do).

edu• 18 years ago

Of course no! You are not too old.

Just today I was reading an article in a spanish magazine about people on their thirties that completely changed their career following their dreams.

Examples: - a psychologist that left to work for a NGO (29 y.o) - a lawyer how left to be an actor (33 y.o.) - a shop manager that left to study physiotherapy (30 y.o.) - and telecom engineer that left to study audiovisual communication (32 y.o.)

All of them are quite happy. And you may be on a similar list someday.

Leonardc, put your armor plate, take your sword and go to kill the dragon! Er, I mean, go to program webs!

mdemare• 18 years ago

One of my favorite anecdotes about people who think they're too old too learn is about a 100 year old woman who was asked if she had any regrets.

She said she wished she'd starting taking violin lessons when she was sixty, since then she would have been playing the violin for forty years.

mattmaroon• 18 years ago

It might hinder you in terms of funding in the startup world. A lot of people say "dont fund anyone over 30" and mean it. I'm not sure if there's any merit to that philosophy at all (probably a little) but it definitely exists.

Other than that, neither compilers nor users know or care how old you are. Make something people want and you'll be fine.

lutorm• 18 years ago

Sure hope you're not too old, because I'm 37! I just decided to leave my academic career in astrophysics and get a "real" job instead, mostly because of the sacrifices academic life demands in terms of relocation (the bad pay doesn't help either...) I've done a lot of coding as part of my research and I hope I have enough skills to land a job. It's a good reality check reading YC news and hearing about all these technologies I have no idea about...

rmk• 18 years ago

you'll probably lose your job to a teeny-bopper who will work for a pittance and longer hours than you might - would you like that? the industry is ruthless - either you keep your skills top-level or you become unemployable - especially in the web-2.0 world. would you like to start from the bottom at 33, with high chances of being laid off at any moment in your career? Probably not!

leonardc2• 18 years ago

Once again guys, thanks for the great posts, its really helped me -a LOT! I really appreciate the generosity of the effort and time people have taken to respond to my post.

Too old to start web programming career?

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