In response to Mike Arrington: Why you should start living your life again.

http://tylerdmace.squarespace.com/musings/2010/3/28/why-you-should-start-living-your-life-again.html

by tylerdmace • 16 years ago

19 29 16 years ago

tylerdmace.squarespace.com

I hope me posting this isn't a problem. Just thought some of you would appreciate it.

oldgregg3• 16 years ago

What ridiculous ramblings. You presuppose that the only problem in the world is intolerance. Well what if my "true self" is touching kids in the naughty place, would you tolerate that?

Everyone is intolerant of others, the question is just who is drawing the line.

tylerdmace5• 16 years ago

I don't think I ever said it was the only problem in the world. I simply stated that it's a problem. And a big one. Grumpy oldgregg is grumpy. Relax, friend.

greenlblue6• 16 years ago

umm... I wouldn't tolerate that because you touching kids is imposing your needs and desires onto someone that is not qualified to consent to that kind of imposition and I don't think this is what the author of the post is saying.

oldgregg3• 16 years ago

Because they are 12 yrs old? 14? 16? 18? Who gets to draw the "qualified to consent" line?

nopassrecover2• 16 years ago

Ridiculous straw man retort. If tolerance, in the form the author argues for ("recognition and respect (of) differences in opinions or beliefs" from an impartial viewpoint), was more widely adopted we would be able to have reasonable debates on issues like censorship and individual liberties without people like you appealing to people's emotional biases with pathetic fear-inducing examples.

oldgregg3• 16 years ago

It's not a straw man, see the very frequent example below. The problem is the definition of "impartial viewpoint."

greenlblue6• 16 years ago

Awesome post and I kinda see where he is coming from. Don't be a dick to others and be true to yourself and the world will be a much better place. Solid advice but unfortunately there are always powerful interests at work that have a stake in shaping your views and opinions. The church, the government, corporations, etc. Each of these things has a stake in an ideology that creates the conditions for their well being at the expense of the well being of others and people are extremely bad at untangling all those influences and getting to the bottom of who they really are. I even suspect some people are really uncomfortable with not being influenced and told what to do since they think chaos is sure to ensue. Every time I tell people I'm an atheist they act like they are seeing me for the first time and their immediate next question is "How do you make moral decisions without religion?". I have yet to find an answer to this question.

jacoblyles6• 16 years ago

Really? I meet so many atheists on the internet and in California that I have the urge to take up a religion just to spite them.

greenlblue6• 16 years ago

I honestly don't care if people are religious or not because in my experience it makes absolutely no difference to how the person acts. In my time I've know many intolerant and unkind religious assholes and I've also known many that have been religious and kind and caring. So if you're gonna take up religion you should do it for yourself and not to spite me.

gizmomagico2• 16 years ago

"How do you make moral decisions without religion?"

- By using your own brain and common sense? How about: "Would you go around killing people if there was no Bible to tell you it's bad mm'kay?"

tylerdmace5• 16 years ago

Agreed. Religion doesn't give you a sense of morals.

greenlblue6• 16 years ago

I've tried that answer but the people that ask me that question do not link intelligence, common sense, decency and morality. To them intelligence has nothing to do with it. They think in the absence of fear nobody does the right thing willingly.

kajecounterhack• 16 years ago

Don't you use your brain and common sense to make all decisions, whether you're religious or not? Yeah, some religious people do tend to say silly things like "Atheists are less moral, they can't make moral decisions without religion" << but I think this is because they miss another aspect of life: society defines morals, not just religion.

Religion is a shaper, but there's only so much defined in religion. Example: Religion doesn't say anything about illegal downloading. It's not exactly the "stealing" talked about in the bible, because hey nobody loses anything, just potential profit. There's no exact matching scenario in the bible...you kind of extrapolate. Where does the rest of your morality regarding such matters come from? Oh yah, your brain! Your common sense. Oh, what's that? Right, common sense is based on society -- norms and outside influences.

Now sure, religion is a big part of people. It has strong ties with society, helping to shape the morality found in societies. Remember how parts of the bible were once used to justify slavery? Does anyone try to use the bible to support slavery anymore? Psh. But hey, if your religion says you can kill people, you wouldn't (logically speaking) just do so in any country today, because you make the decision in your brain "I won't do it or I'll go to jail." Society says no." Same with stuff like gay marriage. Some Christians learn to adapt to having members of the homosexual community in their congregations. Others can't deal just yet cause people dislike change. Regardless, in 100 years, it's a nonissue and virtually everyone agrees, morally speaking. Society wins. It happened with segregation, it happened with gender barriers, it'll happen again.

Disclaimer: I am religious, I'm a Christian to be exact. But yeah, I don't claim that Christians are any more moral than anyone else. Morality is relative from a perspective that doesn't assume existence of God.

^ if you're a Christian, do know that I believe in moral absolutes. But that's only assuming the existence of God, because in that sense morals are defined by the nature of God.

moeffju• 16 years ago

"Do you take the bible literally? Would you stone your rebellious son to death?" - "[something about only using parts of the bible]" - "How do you make that judgement?" - q.e.d.

And in case they reply "Yes, I would stone my son", call the police.

jacoblyles6• 16 years ago

>"But my plea to you all is to stick up for what you believe in - despite knowing that you will undoubtedly encounter hardships as a result. Yeah, it's hard. But believe me, it's worth it."

Why is it worth it? Because you say so? A person who holds a minority belief may risk personal and professional alienation if he expresses that belief without restraint. How do you know that self-expression is worth it for him?

Isn't this post an example of the pathology it describes? "Being true to yourself" is something you're supposed to believe in post-1960s American culture. The author offers nothing but emotion-based arguments for a popular ideal.

tylerdmace5• 16 years ago

I agree that the word 'worth' was poor choice. That's opinion.

My only argument was that it seems beneficial for an individual, even if only in the long run, to exercise open and honest self-expression. Emotion-based? Sure. But that doesn't negate any validity, does it?

jacoblyles6• 16 years ago

>Emotion-based? Sure. But that doesn't negate any validity, does it?

For me - yes. I try not to believe things on the basis of emotion alone.

greenlblue6• 16 years ago

A society in which people are not willing to trust each other and express their opinion is in a very real sense broken. No politician on capitol hill is willing to express their real opinion and look at where that has lead us. Special interests dominate every aspect of law making and every deal happens behind closed doors. This is truly a sad state of affairs and it is so mostly because nobody is willing to say what is really on their mind. All we get now are ideological shouting matches because just like muscles atrophy when not used so does the mental faculty of thinking for yourself.

jacoblyles6• 16 years ago

If people said what was really on their mind, wouldn't we have more ideological shouting matches?

In response to Mike Arrington: Why you should start living your life again.

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