Venezuela's Chavez calls for Internet controls

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62D05I20100314

by miked • 16 years ago

26 39 16 years ago

MikeCapone3• 16 years ago

The Economist has great coverage of what is taking place in Venezuela. There's almost not a week that passes without Chavez closing down a TV station or taking over some private businesses because, f.ex., they raised prices after he devaluated the country's currency by half.

dantheman• 16 years ago

It's the classic socialist play carrying itself out -- the ultimate end is death and destruction. Hopefully the Venezuelans will recognize what's going on and be able to stop it.

andrewcooke3• 16 years ago

From what I've read (I'm afraid I don't have references, and reports vary wildly, this is just my synthesis, following the news fairly closely, as I live in S America) he's doing about average. The country is seeing gains in certain areas (health expectancy, literacy), but they seem to be (within the uncertainties I listed earlier) about what you'd expect from any country that has a sudden boost in (oil related) income.

I say all that to basically explain that it's unlikely he will collapse any time soon.

He's certainly a populist leader, which I find personally distasteful. And he has little respect for free speech or democracy, which is even worse (from my POV). But I think we're also understanding that the "western model" isn't that great either (articles of evidence: (1) the recent financial fiasco; (2) China).

[Edit: I feel I am not really contributing much except uncertainty here. So here's a more decisive take: the biggest problem facing S American politics is, in my opinion, corruption. The kind of approach that Chavez uses encourages corruption and so should be resisted. On the other hand - more uncertainty - most alternatives (particularly military law - this is a big lesson from Chile) also encourage corruption. And, wow, downvoted already... some passive aggressive cunt who hasn't bothered to explain why. What a surprise...]

berntb5• 16 years ago

IMHO, you are over analyzing. Other countries are doing similar things right now (Iran, Russia, etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

When the oil runs out, the clow.. politicians will stop making trouble with foreign countries so they have external enemies [edit: which makes all opposition close to treason; most of the troublesome countries are oil countries today]. That is because the politicians will need to make the internal economy run well, so there is anything worth stealing for them. (Just hope they won't think they are too unpopular to keep earning and take off the velvet gloves, North Korean style.)

lionhearted• 16 years ago

Chavez is the Kim Jong Il of the Western Hemisphere. Military dictator who runs his country into the ground while talking big, waving his arms around, and thinking he's relevant. It's just staggering that despite all that oil they've got, they've managed to squander most of the proceeds via corruption and mismanagement.

ErrantX4• 16 years ago

I have a really bad anecdote about Venezuelan. We had a guy from Venezuela on our Uni course.

Once at a party one of the girls on our course with communist leanings (an American, as it happens) says to him "don't you think it's so great what's going on in your country at the moment?"

The look on his face was awful (to this day I dont think she understands quite why he was upset)

andrewcooke3• 16 years ago

The trouble is that we / you don't have enough context / social knowledge to extrapolate from this. If the guy is in the USA then it's likely he comes from a fairly wealthy background. And that is absolutely not going to support Chavez. S American politics cover a much wider range than American / Western politics, where you are basically choosing between Pepsi and Coke. There really are Maoists and Fascists and everything inbetween.... And also, American leftist supporters of Chavez are incredibly naive, in my experience. So this is just the kind of cultural disaster you could predict - it doesn't really tell us anything new.

I am not criticising you - just trying to explain the general problem with understanding what is happening in Venezuela. It's very had to get a good grip on. So much news is extremely polarized.

gruseom3• 16 years ago

I had a similar experience once. The thing is, though, that a Venezuelan on an international university course almost certainly comes from the tiny elite whose interests are so opposed to Chavez that they would hate him no matter what, regardless of the interests of the country as a whole. That doesn't make the opposite opinion any truer, of course.

miked2• 16 years ago

In the 11 years he's been in office, the murder rate in the country has increased by a factor of 4, to a staggering 140 per 100,000, the highest in the world.

lutorm3• 16 years ago

Actually, it's pretty tied with Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. Since you imply the murder rate in Venezuela is Chavez's fault, I assume the leaders of the other countries are at fault there, too? Except none of those countries have politics in any way similar to Venezuela's...

Besides, actual dictatorships tend to have a very low rate of homicides, at least reported such.

donaldc• 16 years ago

Assuming an average lifespan of 70, that implies that an average citizen there now has about a 10% chance of dying by murder. Gruesome.

lutorm3• 16 years ago

What's your definition of a dictator? Chavez was reelected with 2/3 of the votes, against the leading runner-up with 1/3 the votes, and numerous independent parties have failed to show evidence of the massive election fraud that would have been necessary to skew the results by that much.

I know the US thinks that it has a monopoly on what democracy means, but just because he happens to be opposed to the US does not actually make him a dictator. Comparing him to Kim Jong Il shows a massive lack of perspective.

MikeCapone3• 16 years ago

From Wikipedia (a pretty neutral source):

"The 2010 OAS report also found concerns with freedom of expression, human rights abuses, authoritarianism, press freedom, threats to democracy,[55] political intimidation, and "the existence of a pattern of impunity in cases of violence",[56] as well as erosion of separation of powers, the economic infrastructure, and "chronic problems including power blackouts, soaring crime, and a perceived lack of investment in crucial sectors".[57] The report discusses decreasing rights of those in opposition to the government and "goes into heavy detail" about control of the judiciary. It says elections are free, but the state has increasing control over media and state resources used during election campaigns, and interference with opposition elected officials.[58] According to The Washington Post, the report shows that "Chávez holds tremendous influence over other branches of government, particularly the judiciary";[55] "

edit: To make my position clear, I'm not sure if I would call Chavez a dictator right now. That depends ENTIRELY on how we define "dictator". I think he would be under some definitions, not under others.

But if we look at the direction in which he's moving, he could very well soon be a dictator under all definitions, and I certainly am glad not to be living in Venezuela right now (or that our politicians here in Canada aren't like him, despite all their faults).

gojomo• 16 years ago

'Dictator' is not a synonym for 'unelected' or even 'unpopular'. It has more to do with the leader's ability to rule arbitrarily by their own personal decree.

Kilimanjaro• 16 years ago

One trillion dollars over ten years, just in oil sales, have been stolen by unscrupulous thugs who control the three branches of government and do whatever they please with total impunity.

It is such a shame, being the latin saudis, and having brought the country to such a deplorable state.

They had a chance and they blew it, now all they're doing is robbing as much as they can while assuring themselves in power forever in order to avoid being judged by international courts for all the crimes they have committed in all these years.

More than 100,000 deaths at the hands of government-sponsored killers, more than the afghan and iraq wars together.

The perfect definition of Kleptocracy.

DanielBMarkham• 16 years ago

I'm not going to argue the political theory of this, although I have a lot to say.

Instead I'll just say that I continue to feel sorry for my brother human beings in Venezuela. They deserve better than this.

plesn• 16 years ago

I think this news has it's place on HN, just as well as other news on ACTA, net-neutrality, etc.. But some comments are really inappropriate to put so much political polarity on it.

Venezuela is a country relatively "rebel" on US domination: that doesn't make it a devil, but that doesn't make it a angel either: comments on Chavez being a "dictator" seem inappropriate in this thread (what about a previous US president who cheated with voting machines then ?). Essentially, beware of not distorting the perception of things by highlighting many more such facts when they happen in Venezuela than when they happen e.g. in France or Italy promoted by major media companies and securitarian policies. Overall, think about Chomsky...

bh23ha• 16 years ago

Just like our OUR politicians! Isn't that nice!

Venezuela's Chavez calls for Internet controls

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