OwnCloud Statement concerning the formation of Nextcloud

https://owncloud.com/owncloud-statement-concerning-formation-nextcloud-frank-karlitschek/

by mike-cardwell • 10 years ago

49 26 10 years ago

I have rarely seen an instance of open source project forking which immediately causes loss of employment of eight members of original team.

I have seen such forks degenerate hugely into "they said / we promised / they suck / we're awesome", so I understand the need to delicately balance press releases between the need to inform and need to keep it civil/diplomatic, but I wish I understood more why the act of forking has caused their credit to disappear.

  Unfortunately, the announcement has consequences for ownCloud, Inc. based in Lexington, MA. 
  Our main lenders in the US have cancelled our credit.
  Following American law, we are forced to close the doors of ownCloud, Inc. 
  with immediate effect and terminate the contracts of 8 employees."

mike-cardwell3• 10 years ago

In the first sentence they sound very bitter: "using recently poached developers" - Almost as if they're trying to say that poaching developers is a bad thing. Developers are people, you don't own them and they owe you zero allegiance.

LukasReschke4• 10 years ago

Actually, I should add that to my CV "poached developer" ;-)

- Lukas (Nextcloud'er - see also http://www.zdnet.com/article/owncloud-founder-forks-popular-...)

smoe• 10 years ago

Is it really true, that according to US law, you have to close down immediately if you lose main lenders? Without being given some time to find new ones to safe the company? Seems odd.

amaterasu• 10 years ago

Not sure myself, but were they using the line of credit to demonstrate solvency?

tomc19852• 10 years ago

I've looked at ownCloud several times simply as a tool that I wanted to use, and each time I was turned off because of very distinctly je ne sais quoi icky feeling. For what seemed like an open source, drop-in dropbox replacement, the sales pitch seemed to add a lot of unnecessary crap.

tomc19852• 10 years ago

Can anyone elaborate on said consequences? I fail to see how demoing your product in another country could have an adverse impact at home.

But this looks to be more complicated... ownCloud GmbH is unaffected? What was the purpose of having both companies then? There are many EU firms that seem to compete just fine without the Inc/LLC/Co at the end of their name

tonyarkles• 10 years ago

Yeah, that's super confusing to me as well. I see three different things here:

- nextCloud forking / poaching

- ownCloud having an event where they showed off new planned features

- the bank pulling the plug on financing

Since they're all talked about in the article, it seems as though they're related, but the links between them are really unclear.

noonespecial• 10 years ago

Developers don't get "poached". They're not deer. The leave because something better is offered to them. Usually much better.

There's much more to this than we know yet.

appleflaxen• 10 years ago

My guess is that the governance and decision-making of owncloud inc, coupled with commercial debt/obligations they chose to take on, made it impossible to become commercially successful. Once the writing is on the wall for the main devs, why stick around? You can spin the code out to an unencumbered corporation (nextcloud), leave the debt behind you (owncloud), and start with a clean slate and new governance model.

That could be close or far from the truth, but one thing is clear: the 8 devs who left couldn't see a path to solvency (technical and financial) that was reachable. The most likely reasons for this are either economic realities, or inadequate political capital.

I hope they do better in their new positions.

notacoward• 10 years ago

Sad to hear that the US-based employees were let go. I live in Lexington, and run by that office quite often, so it kind of hits home. Best of luck to all of you.

jsilence• 10 years ago

I'd prefer you'd phrase it "were laid off" or "fired" instead of "let go". The later is an euphemism that implies some kind of free decision.

nkuttler• 10 years ago

This entire thing is just bizarre, I feel like there's a lack of openness from both sides in their communication. No side tries to inform their users about what really happened. I guess the best case is that one side (or both) can't talk because of legal proceedings which, again, would be strange for a more or less open source project.

jancborchardt• 10 years ago

Well, legal stuff and also you just don't badmouth people you worked with until recently. It's simply not nice, and we are still friends with some of the Inc employees.

For more info I recommend the Q&A from Frank and Jos today: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iMfokaX2r8g – we try to be as honest as we can.

Disclaimer/source: I'm one of the »poached developers«, or rather the designer. ;)

jwildeboer• 10 years ago

That escalated quickly.

mxuribe• 10 years ago

Bizarre...seems like it was a hastily-put-together press release.

OwnCloud Statement concerning the formation of Nextcloud

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