Ask HN: If one works over 40hrs/week, can they claim more years of experience?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11488703

by bobisme • 10 years ago

8 22 10 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

If someone were regularly overworked, averaging say 60 hours per week, would it be reasonable to claim 1.5x "years of experience" with a given technology during that period?

Say if someone often worked 70-90 hours per week and worked on holidays and didn't take vacation for 5 years. How could somehow reflect that experience on a résumé? Would it be fair to at least claim 7 years experience for that time?

Thanks

dotcoma• 10 years ago

no (imho).

mtmail• 10 years ago

Are you saying you drove your car really 3 years instead of 5 because you haven't used it every day? Or your marriage is 25 years instead of 20 because it was so intense? Will working three part time jobs triple the number of years?

The years of experience are actual years, no subtractions, no adding. It's just a guidance and says nothing about actual technology experience.

A person who claims to work 70-90h per week without vacation for 5 years might attract some companies. Others will say the person has no private life and might burn out soon. Those extra hours work short-term, but long-term they aren't a batch of honor.

kdamken2• 10 years ago

I don't think that's a fair comparison here - what if they only spent 5 hours a week coding? Would they be able to say they have a year of experience after one year of that?

I think when it comes to work experience, a year of experience denotes a year of full time work.

dalke2• 10 years ago

No.

Work isn't linear. Overwork often leads to less productive work, so working (say) 100 hour weeks for a year might be less of a learning experience than working 40 hours weeks for two years.

Part of experience is in knowing how things evolve. Best practices change. If you only have 2 years of clock time experience but claim 4 years of "real" experience due to working 80 hour weeks, then that doesn't mean you know to handle the changes from 3 years ago when Framework 2.4 became Framework 3.0.

You also don't have a baseline. A lot of people regularly overwork.

Finally, if someone asks "when did your first use Framework" and you reply 2013 but your resume says you have 4 years of experience, then you will likely be called out for the discrepancy.

bobisme2• 10 years ago

Ok, thanks. I was thinking more from the point of view that programming is a skill and skills develop with hours of practice.

dalke2• 10 years ago

Skill development, in the model of K. Anders Ericsson, requires a certain type of deliberate practice, not simply "hours of practice." Moreover, he argues that it's only possible to spend a few hours a day at deliberate practice. The rest doesn't contribute to improved learning.

hashkb• 10 years ago

After a few real years, you'll start to appreciate how much experience your brain gets when you're washing the dishes. You need time away from the primary task to get better at it. I also echo the other points.

partisan• 10 years ago

No and does it really matter? I find that interviewers are open to seeing candidates who don't have experience exactly in the range they are looking for as long as you can impress them with your knowledge. The ones who do are the places you probably shouldn't work anyway.

MalcolmDiggs• 10 years ago

Hahahaha, classic.

Oh wait, you're serious?

kohanz2• 10 years ago

would it be reasonable to claim 1.5x "years of experience" with a given technology during that period

As a general aside, every time I see a resume with something along the lines of: "Java (2.5 years), C++ (5 years)", I cringe a little. Please don't do this. There is something about denoting the exact amount of time you have spent with a specific technology (which we can generally deduce from your work experience anyway) that, at least to me, broadcasts a lack of confidence in your own skills.

Zyst• 10 years ago

In my country HR specifically asks for 'x' years of experience with 'Y'.

I don't have it in my resume, I just spread the skills between an "Advanced" and "Proficient" subsection, but I've been asked at least once why I don't specify the number of years with each technology.

bobisme2• 10 years ago

I think it's stupid too, but every job posting lists required years of experience.

msbarnett• 10 years ago

That a lot of job postings make a mistake does not mean you must duplicate it on your resume.

Most places (and probably all places that aren't incompetently managed/places you would want to work at) do not filter resumes on the basis of "Our posting said 5+ years of C++ and nowhere on this resume does it say C++ - X Years! Rejected!". If you break your resume down along the lines of "At FooBar Corp I was directly responsible for frobnitzing the blahblahblah with C++", "At Quux Labs my primary achievement was using C++ to cromlify the flux capacitor" etc, most places won't even bother to total up the years involving a given technology.

X Years with Y are a vague wishlist item that job posting writers unthinkingly cargocult around as a rough signal of whether they want a junior engineer or someone more senior. Don't give them too much thought, never let them convince you to disqualify yourself from a job without applying, and definitely don't cargocult along with them.

bbcbasic• 10 years ago

Ah the old guess the signal/filter cv game. So kohanz cringes, that is one data point, but will the company you apply to cringe if you do it, or cringe if you don't?

panic• 10 years ago

If "cringe" is a factor in reviewing resumes, you're doing it wrong anyway. Judge people on what they've done, not how they present it.

kdamken2• 10 years ago

While you're technically correct (the best kind of correct!) in that a year of experience assumes a 40 hour work week, I don't think anyone would let you add extra years. A year of experience just means you did that job for a year.

I'd recommend against doing that for a resume - you'll be seen as a liar.

jbchoo• 10 years ago

Ppl in Singapore work minimally 44 hrs/week. And generally ppl work way more than that minimum req. If the claim system you asked would be implemented as world standard, I think most singapore residents would be over the moon, rushing to update their resume now.

theGREENsuit• 10 years ago

No. By working extra hours you may gain more expertise but you certainly do not gain time. You can't make time, you can only spend it. How would you reflect working 70-90 hrs/week without holidays? By having senior level expertise, a list of accomplishments and being burnt out :)

uptownfunk• 10 years ago

I know for places like top-tier consulting firms (e.g. MBB) people regularly say that 1 yr of work translates to about 2 yrs of typical 40hr/week type of work. I think the highly right skewed distribution of tenure contributes to that.

saluki• 10 years ago

I would be honest with your history . . . I've been developing with X since Y. If you start to inflate things you're going to fall down a slippery slope where you're not even sure how long you've been doing things and interviews/conversations could get confusing/make you look bad.

Most companies just care that you know your stuff enough to be production so 3-5 years of experience is plenty saying 7 years isn't going to improve your level/pay/experience.

Keep things honest, I wouldn't advertise that you avg. 60 hours per week worked on holidays etc. You'll be better off getting away from that in your next job.

I've done that before and seen people do that for years and when things go bad they are still shown the door like everyone else. So don't be that person. Work reasonable hours for reasonable pay.

Ask HN: If one works over 40hrs/week, can they claim more years of experience?

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