What's the largest number you can represent with 3 digits? Nope. It's not 999

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-largest-number-you-can-represent-3-digits-nope-its-ed-trice

by JBiserkov • 10 years ago

30 56 10 years ago

linkedin.com

terinjokes• 10 years ago

I can't view this, just loads a "create a LinkedIn account!" page. Is there a better link for the article?

jacquesm8• 10 years ago

http://pastebin.com/hWxg8ywJ

jacquesm8• 10 years ago

Way to go dad. I'd be very proud if that was my father standing up for me and as a father I'd be very proud if that was my daughter.

threatofrain15• 10 years ago

But the answer isn't even correct, and it's the bad kind of pedantry. It looks myopic, but with a flair for overgeneralization (an attack on Common Core itself).

jacquesm8• 10 years ago

It is correct.

CarolineW• 10 years ago

Copying to here the comment I made elsewhere[0]:

There is so much right with this article, and so much wrong.

Firstly, it's not the Common Core he's fighting, but the implementation of some of the testing. Assessment is hard, really hard, really really hard. Making sure someone actually knows something, as opposed to going through the motions in which they are well drilled, is nearly impossible.

But secondly, 9^9^9 is not the largest number that can be represented by three digits. There's Knuth's notation. Oh, perhaps they haven't learned that yet.

And there's the dilemma. Arguing that all the other students were wrong because they didn't use something that they hadn't learned, we can also argue that his daughter was wrong for the same reason.

Education is hard, assessment is hard, and arguments like this don't actually help.

========

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11322756

jacquesm8• 10 years ago

Well, yes. Assuming the story is true in the first place. And if we believe the story - might as well, the guy is out there with his full name in view - then he did give them the option.

Now about whether or not it is true or not, a girl in my class was the only one to get a particular test question right (math as well). The problem was that that test had already been administered to all the other classes and nobody got it right so it was decided to drop that question from the final grading. And then she answered it right. That test comprised 10 questions, with a 'base' of 1 point for showing up so she actually scored an '11' on a scale of 1 to 10. She had to fight for that too, this stuff occasionally does happen.

Mithaldu10• 10 years ago

Yes, that is the core here.

He asked: Mark my daughter's answer as correct.

They said: We can either: Mark her wrong, everyone else right; or mark her right and everyone else wrong.

He said: Well if you don't want to just mark her right and everyone else too, if you can't accept that the question may have multiple answers, then do what you must.

ajholyoake2• 10 years ago

For Knuths notation you also require symbols. Writing 9^9^9 only uses digits.

threatofrain15• 10 years ago

Exponentiation (or tetration) is as much a symbol, it's just not explicitly penned down for brevity. The question could ask for a limitation on operators, but then I think it's outside the scope of the class.

eecks3• 10 years ago

Is ^ a digit?

pmiller2• 10 years ago

I would argue that is not the point of the story. The point is that this man stood up for his daughter who was being made to feel bad because she had a better answer than the other kids. You can quibble about 9^9^9 vs Knuth notation vs Conway notation (you didn't mention that one) vs some arbitrary notation you can invent, but the point is the girl was more creative than the rest of her class and was penalized for it, and her dad stood up for her.

threatofrain15• 10 years ago

You frame the poster as quibbling, but that's exactly what the father is doing, in a way that is both incorrect and pedantic, even if we were to follow their internal logic of using only implicit operators (why not tetration?).

Yes, the girl exercised creativity. It is the teacher's discretionary job to reward that creativity. In this case, though, the father is wrong and he myopically uses it to attack the Common Core.

dagw3• 10 years ago

I was with the dad until he started to use his daughter as a launching platform for his own personal crusade against his political bugbears. After that it became clear that he cared less about his daughter and more about his politics.

Poyeyo• 10 years ago

It's so hard it will probably be replaced by an AI in 50 years.

Welcome, overlords, etc.

robbiemitchell• 10 years ago

Right, he is conflating standardized testing with Common Core, a set of K-12 standards. One didn't "become" the other. It's possible to have unified standards without high-stakes testing.

K-12 standardized testing grew dramatically in recent years, notably as a result of NCLB in 2001. Throughout most of this time, each state had its own high-stakes, standardized, highly redundant tests and its own curriculum for preparing for them. (Many states followed the lead of California, Texas, or Florida -- the "adoption states." Some cities, like Chicago, had their own standards. It was a mess.) A bunch of states then got together and agreed on a common curriculum framework. Shortly thereafter, in 2009, the Dept. of Ed. rolled out "Race to the Top," which (among other things) encourages the adoption of _a_ common set of standards but doesn't specify any particular one.

In his 2008 example, the principal referred to the situation as a "standardized, nationwide test." The only one I am aware of for grade school is the NAEP, which has been around since 1969 and is not tied to funding or related to the state-specific standardized testing. More: https://www.nagb.org/toolbar/faqs.html

The math methods used in Common Core go back a while: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/why-do-americans-...

Some specific history of the Common Core: http://www.usnews.com/news/special-reports/articles/2014/02/...

beeboop• 10 years ago

TLDR: Helicopter parent pretentiously humblebrags about how his daughter is the only one in the country to get a 100% on a standardized test, since no one else answered "9^9^9" (I am guessing this was a "none of the above" answer) and how he had to get a lawyer involved to make the scoring organization mark his daughter's answer correct and everyone else's incorrect.

threatofrain15• 10 years ago

Unfortunately the answer isn't even correct, and the parent uses this local example to launch an argument against the Common Core itself.

eecks3• 10 years ago

If we allow that then I could represent a larger number with customFunction(123) and have it return (9^9^9)+1. The kids haven't learned programming? Too bad I guess. Mark that girl down to a 99 score please.

krzyk• 10 years ago

A side note, why is he bragging about "carrying a 3.82 in Biology with a leaning towards pre-med", that's not a mathematical subject. It would seem that in the end, didn't he lost the battle, because his daughter didn't follow maths all the way.

pritambaral• 10 years ago

It wasn't about math. It was about being intelligent and being encouraged for it.

J_Darnley• 10 years ago

Wow. The title would make me guess "not using base-10" but then these comments seem to let you use operators.

yongjik3• 10 years ago

Don't let common core stand in the way of your own children's education.

Yeah, instead let a pretentious father tell every single kid in the country they are wrong because they failed to realize a technical loophole in the question that uses something that they aren't supposed to know at that age anyway. Congratulations.

I won't envy someone with a daddy who would hire a lawyer and spend three months arguing how his daughter must have every answer marked correct. I'd feel sorry for her.

Mithaldu10• 10 years ago

You didn't read the article carefully enough.

He asked them: Recognize that multiple answers can be correct and mark my daughter correct. They responded with: Only one can be correct, period. The wrong-doing is 100% with the school administration.

Also, telling children: "You're not supposed to have this knowledge." is down-right despicable on a personal level.

yongjik3• 10 years ago

I agree the school behaved very poorly, but that doesn't mean the father was being reasonable.

By "not supposed to know", I mean the other students should not be penalized for not knowing exponentiation. If marking down his daughter is despicable, so is marking down every other children for not having a father who can afford to hire a lawyer for their grades.

The way I read it, he decided it's OK to give the same injustice his daughter received to every other children, because they are not his children, after all. I don't think that's the kind of parental role children needs, and I don't want to be such a parent. (Well, luckily for me, I can't afford lawyer for such matters, and my kids have no danger of having a five-week 100% streak on math problems, let alone five years, so I guess that point is moot...)

minikomi• 10 years ago

9^9^9 is still wrong.

0 takes up more space, and therefore three zeros will be the `largest` number you can represent in terms of area. Thus, even his daughter must be marked wrong.

Houshalter• 10 years ago

It's also not 9^9^9. If you are allowing use of exponentation, well there are an infinite number of other math symbols out there you can use too. BusyBeaver(9^9^9), or BusyBeaver(BusyBeaver(9^9^9)), etc.

And yes that's pointless know it all pedantry, but so is this whole post. The teacher obviously meant the largest number that can be stated without external math functions, and 999 is that.

What's the largest number you can represent with 3 digits? Nope. It's not 999

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