Trade Officials Sign the TPP but It's Still Up to Lawmakers to Reject It

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/trade-officials-sign-tpp-its-still-lawmakers-reject-it

by walterbell • 10 years ago

88 24 10 years ago

nefitty• 10 years ago

TPP is obscured by a wall of confusion and disinformation. As a tax payer of the United States (or any other country involved), what do you think the takeaway is? As in, how should I, a concerned citizen, approach this topic at the bar or the dinner table?

Kristine1975• 10 years ago

Ignore it. You can't change the outcome anyway :-|

work-on-828• 10 years ago

Just like a popular uproar couldn't prevent SOPA from passing.

wfo2• 10 years ago

It's a question about the right to self-determination, which is not technical or confusing. It expands and enshrines the right of corporate attorneys to take countries to court and modify their laws to suit corporate interests. If the people of the US want to pass a law, should the constitution and government of the US decide if it sticks? Or a group of corporate lawyers at a multinational corporation in a third party business-friendly kangaroo court? If your answer is the first one, then the TPP is morally unacceptable, full stop, no more discussion needed.

JBReefer• 10 years ago

That may be your opinion, but I do think we should have a discussion around something as important and complicated as the TPP.

All I've heard so far is Jingoism, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

ryporter4• 10 years ago

The EFF obviously is focused on one aspect of the deal, and I don't find their arguments about the other aspects to be convincing. For the economic benefits, they use the same form of argument that global warming skeptics and creationists do, observing that there exists people who disagree with the general consensus. The fact that they can name one researcher on both sides of the issue does not imply that we should dismiss that issue as "debatable."

The fact of the matter is that "the agreement would reduce 18,000 tariffs. Tariffs on all U.S. manufactured goods and almost all U.S. farm products would be eliminated completely, with most eliminations occurring immediately." [1] Furthermore, we can't realistically ask for the parties to go back to the negotiating table to try to improve the deal. This one was 10 years in the making, which is depressing, but does mean that it's basically this deal or nothing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership#Tari...

lumberjack• 10 years ago

Reducing tariffs is not in vogue anymore. Trump is getting lots of support for his proposal to reinstate many tariffs.

Furthermore, we can't realistically ask for the parties to go back to the negotiating table to try to improve the deal. This one was 10 years in the making, which is depressing, but does mean that it's basically this deal or nothing.

But they told us that negotiating it in secrecy does not matter as there will be a window of so many months in which it will be made public before the legislators will sign it.

So then it does matter, after all.

emergentcypher• 10 years ago

The point is that we did not have an opportunity to influence the negotiations and therefore the text of the treaty. We instead are presented almost with a fait accompli that we must either accept or reject altogether.

mtgx• 10 years ago

Michael Geist covered many more issues with TPP here:

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/tech-law-topics/tpp/

Aaargh20318• 10 years ago

The EFF obviously is focused on one aspect of the deal

So ? A chain is as strong as it's weakest link. If one aspect of the deal is unacceptable then there is no point in discussing the rest, you can reject the whole deal.

ryporter4• 10 years ago

I don't understand your use of the chain analogy. The TPP is wide-ranging agreement. How are the economic benefits of reduced tariffs eliminated by another aspect of the deal, such as copyrights?

ktxt2• 10 years ago

It is a fact that the TPP is an early stage of a process that is a threat to clasical liberalism-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_integration#Stages

And people like to criticize the Koch Brothers and George Soros, but how many policy promoting non phrofits does David Rockefeller have? Dozens?

What if Rockefeller's personal political philosophies are flawed? Him and the Foreign Policy Establishment have uniformly defined globalization as Balassa's theory of economic integration.

The TPP is the 2nd or 3rd stage of a 7 stage process. It is very dangerous, if you believe in natural rights and human freedom.

ryporter4• 10 years ago

It is indeed a fact that the TPP moves us closer to Economic Integration. Claiming that Economic Integration is a threat to classical liberalism is your opinion, and is not supported by the link you cited.

vinay427• 10 years ago

There are many other controversial aspects of the bill, such as extensive copyright protections and reduced access to generic medicines, both of which were forced in through US pressure. To me it sounds like the agreement is designed primarily to benefit large American corporations.

wfo2• 10 years ago

Most Americans want tariffs. We've seen what removing protectionism and globalizing the economy has done: things are great for American elites and corporate interests, and American workers have been thrown in the dumpster. "Removing tariffs" is a negative, not a positive aspect of a law for most Americans at this point.

And the fact that it is up-or-down without our input makes me more inclined to simply say no. If you don't want my input but you want me to agree, you had better tailor-make your proposition with my interests in mind.

"This deal or nothing" is an easy choice much like a bully saying "my way or the highway" -- the highway is fine, thank you.

livestyle2• 10 years ago

There is only one candidate that is addressing TPP.

Stephen Miller, Donald Trump senior economic adviser discusses his policy here

https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-stephe...

r00fus• 10 years ago

Bernie also talks against the TPP as well... Or are you assuming Hillary will win?

livestyle2• 10 years ago

He actually has detailed plan to address the issues derived from TPP.

If you are into wonk talk you will dig this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvZuQMmY90

Trade Officials Sign the TPP but It's Still Up to Lawmakers to Reject It

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