Tesla Model S Burns During Supercharging in Norway: Reports

http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-burns-to-a-crisp-during-supercharging-in-1750581400

by punnerud • 11 years ago

33 16 11 years ago

awakeasleep2• 11 years ago

I wonder what caused this, and how often similar stuff happens with ICE cars. I know fuel can be ignited when refueling, but there are all sorts of steps to mitigate that. Were any errors committed in this disaster?

If a kid was in a baby seat in there, it would have been awful.

Swizec• 11 years ago

Static discharge causes a lot of gas pump fires. Enough that I remember seeing shows on Discovey Channel that talked about the fact that once your car is pumping, you shouldn't re-enter and exit the vehicle until the nozzle is out. Especially if you're the one touching the nozzle.

And for god's sake don't pull the nozzle out once the tank ignites. That makes a fireball.

In short, it's common enough that warnings about it show up on daytime television.

edit: That said, charging batteries burn often enough that every high-power charging device I've ever had said not to leave it unattended while charging. When you're pumping that much energy into something that quickly, things can happen.

Theodores• 11 years ago

This is news to me. In the UK the petrol pump nozzle has to be held, you can't just put it in there and expect it to fill up your tank - at all times the handle has to be held. Is this not the case in the USA? Can you put the nozzle in the tank, walk about, get in and out of the car and rely on the nozzle staying in the tank, filling up the tank until it magically knows the tank is full? If so then that is where your problem is. In the UK we don't have forecourt fireballs, it sounds to me that this is an American 'innovation', one that is probably needed given that Americans need to consume their own bodyweight in 'gasoline' to get to work and back in one of Detroit's finest 'cars'.

venning• 11 years ago

I remember seeing a gas station security video of this, pre-YouTube. A woman wearing what looked like a fuzzy (static-y) sweater accidentally sparked the gas at the filler door, igniting the gas in the line.

She had the presence of mind to close the filler cap before running from the car, which probably starved the fire sufficiently to prevent anything more interesting from showing up on the video. That said, I'm not entirely certain that a fuel filler fire would overtake the entire car. It may just burn out the remaining fuel via the fuel door, so long as the components of the fuel system are sufficiently fire-retardant (no guarantee).

When new Ferraris burn themselves down in seconds (happens a lot), I believe it tends to be because something has allowed the fuel pump to continue operating after the line has ruptured, and so the pump is pushing a constant stream on high-pressure flammable liquid onto a hot engine. As long as there's still electricity, the fire will get bigger and bigger.

pjleonhardt• 11 years ago

If a kid was in a baby seat in there, they (hopefully) wouldn't have left the car unattended!

brandon272• 11 years ago

Apparently they are pretty common.

In 2003-2007, U.S. fire departments responded to an average of 287,000 vehicle fires per year. These fires caused an average of 480 civilian deaths, 1,525 civilian injuries, and $1.3 billion in direct property damage annually.

http://www.nfpa.org/research/reports-and-statistics/vehicle-...

Fire is only one component of vehicle safety. My main personal concern with vehicle safety is how the vehicle performs in an accident and Tesla seems to have an excellent record when it comes to building vehicles that hold up very, very well in collisions.

ytjohn• 11 years ago

ICE car fires are so amazingly common, that it's not even news (unless the car is powered by lithium batteries).

U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010. These fires caused an average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage.

Facts and Figures Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths. On average, 17 automobile fires were reported per hour. These fires killed an average of four people every week.

http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/vehicle...

That being said, there are a lot less EVs on the road than ICE, and the number of Teslas on the road is only a fraction of that. In 2014 there were 30k Teslas sold and 4 of them were involved in a fire, which is .013%. From what I read, all investigating authorities cleared Tesla of any fault. In most cases, it was the result of some road debris puncturing a battery.

I'm not saying this fire isn't a result of a defect in a Tesla component or design. But so far Tesla has a good track record on safety and also seems dedicated to keeping it that way.

awakeasleep2• 11 years ago

This article is talking about a fire while the car is unattended in a state where it's not practical to keep it under observation.

It's certainly not comparable to all automobile fires and it's not really comparable to a spark during refueling fire, either. This would be more like if your car caught on fire in the garage at night, or while parked.

clumsysmurf3• 11 years ago

When a large lithium battery (car, Powerwall) combusts, what area is contaminated with hydrogen fluoride? Since its a gas (unless dissolved in water) would it dissipate without trace or leave behind toxic residue ?

tristanj• 11 years ago

I don't think there's any fluoride in these batteries. The Model S uses Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum (NCA) batteries and the powerwall uses Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) batteries. Neither contain any Fluorine, and since they produce electricity using chemical reactions not nuclear reactions, no new elements will be produced. Not too sure what you're asking.

Source for the battery composition: http://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-grid-batteries-chemistry...

clumsysmurf3• 11 years ago

Seems the issue is not settled. NMC were also tested: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25714114

and

"More HF is generated per cell as the number of cells increases. The NMC cells tested generate significantly less HF gas than the LFP cells. However, only one cell type from a single supplier was tested so it is impossible to conclude if this is a general characteristic of NMC cells."

http://www.egvi.eu/uploads/Scania%20-%20Abuse%20testing%20of...

clumsysmurf3• 11 years ago

I'm not sure why my question in getting down voted.

The Tesla (and other vehicles) were specifically mentioned in "Proceedings from 3rd International Conference on Fires in Vehicles - FIVE 2014 October 1st-2nd, 2014 Berlin, Germany"

http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/204919/...

jasonjei• 11 years ago

In the event of a destructive fire caused by a manufacturing defect, does Tesla replace the car or offer a full refund based on a replacement value of a Tesla without going through the owner's insurance even if it is outside the warranty period? Or must the owner file a claim with the insurance company?

runarb• 11 years ago

According to an Norwegian article so was the car brand new, only delivered to its owner two days ago: http://www.dagbladet.no/2016/01/01/nyheter/bil/fritid/brann/...

The car was connected to a public Tesla supercharger that can deliver 120 ampere and 500 volt.

Tesla Model S Burns During Supercharging in Norway: Reports

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