Immigrants invest in U.S. businesses in exchange for visas

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010901056.html?wprss=rss_business

by iamelgringo • 17 years ago

17 27 17 years ago

patio112• 17 years ago

This is exactly what I have in mind when I say that instead of a Startup Visa program I'd like to see a Visas For Sale program. It keeps everything on the up and up and reduces administration costs.

lutorm• 17 years ago

Um, would you mind explaining how this program would fill the need for a startup visa? I don't know how many people applying to the startup school have $500k -$1M to fork over before even starting to work on their startup, but I doubt it'll be a resounding success...

patio112• 17 years ago

The Startup Visa proposals seem to be "Let's anoint a group of VCs or angels with the ability to decide who gets to come to the US", which I think opens the possibility for ahem corruption and gives a governmental or semi-governmental group the authority to pick winners in the market. If you just sold visas, it would just be another capital-raising barrier to hop over. No nonsense about "Must create 10 jobs" or "Must win the favor of a particular bureaucrat", just "Convince someone -- anyone -- that you're a good enough risk to put #{PRICE_OF_VISA} on the line."

You could also let the market price the visas for you if you want, via an auction mechanic or something similar.

tptacek• 17 years ago

None of the "startup visa" proposals give you a free visa just because you want to apply to startup school.

jacquesm5• 17 years ago

I'd like to see borders disappear.

I'd like to see visas disappear.

catzaa5• 17 years ago

Be careful what you wish for. A world without borders might sound nice in a John Lennon song, but in practice it is not.

The domino effect can happen – one state collapses and the people move to another state, which strains that state’s government and collapses that economy too.

I live in South Africa, and we basically have an open border policy (since the laws do not get implemented). There are a lot of illegal immigrants which significantly increases crime, puts strain on services and creates social problems. We have a broad unemployment rate of 40% - we can’t even provide jobs for our own people, let alone 4+ million illegal immigrants.

faragon2• 17 years ago

I'm a somewhat european computer scientist, and I would love to work for 2 or 3 years in the U.S. just for fun and getting a better english, but with such immigration laws I prefer to stay in Europe.

By the way, you highly skilled americans are welcome to work and live here ;-)

rmanocha• 17 years ago

I don't know about highly skilled americans, but Europe's immigration policies seem to be no better for highly skilled asians.

P.S. - I'm an Indian.

jacquesm5• 17 years ago

Exactly. And I'm ashamed of it more than I can express in a forum but there seem to be enough xenophobes here to ensure that's going to be the status quo for quite a while.

Even within the EU there is plenty of that, witness the friction between western Europeans and immigrants from Poland or Romania.

We have a long way to go in this respect.

faragon2• 17 years ago

Highly skilled people should have little problems with visas, however, it depends on the country (Europe has heterogeneous immigration policies).

catzaa5• 17 years ago

The UK has good laws (you can get a highly skilled Visa without major problems).

Unfortunately some of the nicest countries it is difficult (e.g. Ireland).

tokenadult4• 17 years ago

My usual question: what country in the world offers a better visa policy than the United States?

A) In what country of the world could an American college graduate in a high-tech major field get off the plane and immediately start working with the prospect of long-term employment and permanent residence?

B) In what country of the world could a college graduate from India or China in a high-tech major field get off the plane and immediately start working with the prospect of long-term employment and permanent residence?

C) In what country of the world could a college graduate from an arbitrary country with an arbitrary college major get off the plane and immediately start working with the prospect of long-term employment and permanent residence?

D) In what country of the world could a person from an arbitrary country with no schooling beyond compulsory instruction get off the plane and immediately start working with the prospect of long-term employment and permanent residence?

E) More generally, which countries in the world enjoy net immigration rather than net emigration?

kmt• 17 years ago

Canada?

tokenadult4• 17 years ago

Which questions above were you linking to Canada by your reply?

I know for sure that Canada has a different immigration policy from the United States. Here I would be curious to know whether most hackers think that Canada's policies are easier on, harder on, or about the same as United States policies for would-be hacker immigrants.

psranga• 17 years ago

Btw, A through D are false even with respect to the US.

It is very rare for American companies to hire foreigners not already present in the US. They usually hire young people who've come to the US to study for a BS/MS/PhD. It's a myth that people can "get off the plane immediately start working".

It's exceedingly difficult for a foreigner to get hired to work in the US unless he's already in the US (IMHO, mostly because of the costs/hassles in doing an in-person interview, and the cornucopia of talent in the US).

Having said this, I still think the US has one of the best visa policies in the world.

To answer your question: so far as I know, India's work visa program is easier than USA's. But that means nothing because there's very little demand to go work in India. :)

tokenadult4• 17 years ago

A through D are false even with respect to the US

Your statement is correct. My questions were asking for general information, and were not meant to imply anything about policy in the United States.

Having said this, I still think the US has one of the best visa policies in the world.

That's what I wanted to get a reality check about by asking my questions in the grandparent comment. I appreciate seeing your point of view.

eru2• 17 years ago

For E, I'd say around half, unless the distribution is very concentrated.

tokenadult4• 17 years ago

I'd expect the distribution to have more countries with net emigrants than countries with net immigrants--people on the move will try to get into the best countries that they can get into.

agmiklas• 17 years ago

I'd have to say Canada's immigration process is better (for the immigrant) compared to the US.

The usual US process:

1. Find a company willing to employ you, even though you are not a US citizen / GC holder.

2. Find some way to start working for this company. For some nationalities (ex. Canadian), this isn't actually too bad. For most nationalities, though, if the company wants you to start working right away, they'll have to base you at a foreign office until you become eligible for an intra-company transfer visa, or are able to get an H1-B.

3. The company applies on your behalf for an H1-B. The big problem here is that there is an H1-B quota which is usually exhausted very early on. In years where the quota is exceeded, the system switches to a lottery, so even if you've been trying for the visa for many years, there's no guarantee you'll get it this year if the quota is exceeded.

4. The company applies on your behalf for a Green Card. There's a whole pile of stumbling blocks here:

-- There are overall quotas for the number of GCs that can be issued by way of employer sponsorship.

-- There are national origin quotas. If you're from western Europe, you're probably OK, but good luck if you're from India/China.

-- The employer has to do a labor market search to show that they can't employ a US citizen / GC holder for your job.

5. Apply for citizenship after 5 years

Usual Canadian process:

1. Apply for permanent residency. This is done on a points based system. The calculator is here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLish/immigrate/skilled/assess/index....

Some permutations that will let you through:

-- BSc + MSc + 2 years work experience + excellent English skills

-- BSc + MSc + 1 year work experience + excellent English + basic French

-- BSc + 1 year work experience + job offer in Canada (requires labor market check) + excellent English

-- BSc + 3 years work experience + excellent English + basic French

-- BSc + 4 years work experience + excellent English

2. Apply for citizenship after 3 years

Advantages of the Canadian system:

- The Canadian system has no quotas (either based on visa class or on national origin). Apparently, the government publishes "targets", but they don't cut off applications if the target is exceeded.

- In the Canadian system, no one is "sponsoring" you -- your flow through the immigration system is a matter between you and the government. This removes a whole much of incentives your employer might have to keep you at certain stages of the immigration process.

- Once you're admitted as a PR, you can work for anyone you like. There's no period where you are stuck on visas that tie you to a particular company. If you feel the business you're working for isn't paying you enough, you can simply quit and take a job elsewhere without jeopardizing your immigration status.

- Once you have a few years of experience, you don't even need a job offer to get PR in Canada. This lets you enter the country first, and then once you've settled, start looking for a job.

Immigrants invest in U.S. businesses in exchange for visas

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