Portugal's Velocidade Controlada – speed control traffic signals

http://ideas.4brad.com/portugals-velocidade-controlada-speed-control-traffic-signals

by mblakele • 11 years ago

41 16 11 years ago

ideas.4brad.com

eCa• 11 years ago

When I travelled through Spain back in '99 these were pretty common. They usually turned green when cars had slowed down to the speed limit. I travelled by bike so I didn't trigger them very often..

Robocars of course would know where all these are and never trigger one, even if the occupants have commanded the vehicle to exceed the limit.

I will be very surprised if occupants of self driving vehicles have that option.

bradtemp3• 11 years ago

Be surprised, then. Google's cars have it. In fact, it would be unsafe not to have it, and the history of attempting to force people with technology in their cars to limit their speed is a history of that never happening.

davnicwil• 11 years ago

Google's cars have it.

I had to look this up, not because I didn't believe you but just to verify and read about the reasoning behind it.

The main point I got is that breaking the speed limit intentionally is done to match other speeding traffic and thus not cause a hazard by going slowly relative to everyone else on a section of road.

Whether or not this makes sense, I find it completely unbelievable that this will be explicitly allowed by regulations in basically any country, as a completely autonomous strategic decision by the car's computer.

Perhaps I could see it being 'allowed' as an option to be manually toggled by a human - in the same way that most current road-legal cars have the capability to reach speeds way beyond the limit and yet remain legal.

The law wouldn't explicitly allow this option to be used, but it of course would be, and a blind eye would be turned in cases where it's obviously not a problem, and prosecutions against the human who enabled the option would occur in cases where it is - in other words how speeding laws are currently enforced.

eb0la• 11 years ago

They're still very common in secondary (rural) roads. I Hope you did enjoy the trip.

justacodefan2• 11 years ago

One thing that the author may not be aware of is that, despite the light turning red for you and oncoming traffic, it may turn green for any side streets. Running the red light has potential consequences much more severe than just a ticket (such as crashing into another driver) so no one ever dares to do so.

I completely agree that these are better than speed bumps because people speed through those too. And there's no need to slow down to 15 Km/hr either, you can do it at the speed limit with some margin of error (around 15% iirc).

soundjack2• 11 years ago

Portuguese here. Speed cameras are definitely legal, although it's mandatory to have a sign indicating their presence x meters beforehand (if I'm not mistaken). Also mobile police units with speed cameras in very discreet places is a common thing. What happened in Lisbon some time ago though was that most of the radars ended up dying due to lack of maintenance (due to lack of funds/attention/whatever). A lot were recently reactivated I heard.

But yeah these speed sensitive red lights are common and I agree that they work pretty well. Social pressure is good for behavioral nudging. Reminds me of those led signs that show a sad face if you go over the limit on certain residential areas for example.

However I must say that nothing beats Belgium in speed radars. Especially in Flanders, there are so many of these damn Gatso speed traps... What really makes the whole thing work though is a very good system behind it. Here in Belgium, if you're caught by a speed camera, you'll get the fine within 2 weeks tops. In Portugal however you might not even get it because the pile of fines to process is too big and the system isn't prepared for it.

I can confirm the roundabout obsession too :) those can be really annoying but they sure slow people down.

soundjack2• 11 years ago

This reply was meant for mig39, its a bit late sorry.

joeyo• 11 years ago

Sounds a little bit like (though more sophisticated than) the timed lights that some cities employ, for example Oak and Fell streets in San Francisco. If you go the speed limit you'll get green all the way though; if you speed you'll just sit at a red light.

stevep98• 11 years ago

I'm pretty sure there was a light that did this in Virginia. Possibly on Route 7 North of Reston. Long stretch of road with no intersections, and a light seemingly for no purpose.

mig39• 11 years ago

I've heard from my Portuguese cousins that they do it this way because speed cameras aren't legal, but red light cameras are.

So while they can't give you a fine for speeding based on photo radar, they can give you a fine for running a red light.

Not sure if it's true or not. But I've experienced the same red lights in the middle of nowhere while driving in Portugal. There's also the social pressure of triggering one of these -- it stops traffic and then you get the glares from all around.

Portugal is also obsessed with roundabouts of all sizes, which I think are a traffic-calming and safety thing as well. Even small intersections in the rural areas have roundabouts rather than the standard North American-style 4-way stop signs.

justacodefan2• 11 years ago

Oh they'll get you speeding on photo radar alright. The question is if the fine will actually get to you before 3 months because the system is so poor. And then you ask for the photo evidence and they'll tell you that you have to pay for it (this happened to me once).

Fines for running red lights are an instant very serious offense and two of these will suspend your license. Speeding depends on how much you went over the limit but it's a bit more flexible.

4-way stop signs are the stupidest idea when there is very little traffic or when there is a lot of traffic in a given intersection. In fact, they only work well in a moderately trafficked intersection; vehicles are supposed to stop once and then go through the light.

Roundabouts solve this entirely because for low, medium and even high congestion areas they are very effective at clearing out traffic. Sure they are definitely harder to tackle but as long as you're not in Braga (go around the outside or you'll crash into someone) you will have little to no issue doing them as most people are civil enough to tackle them properly. The issue is placing them because they require significantly more space and not all locations are suited to having them; if you notice most new planned roads all include roundabouts.

jchrisa• 11 years ago

In America these are called "rest on red" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6EBUR8sPmc

bradtemp3• 11 years ago

No, that's different. This light is normally green, and only goes red, briefly, if you speed on the way to it. The rest on red stays red, and goes green after you slow down a bunch for it.

dzhiurgis• 11 years ago

Sounds like a great opportunity to mass produce and sell to other countries.

If you employ solar and use readily available components, they must come out cheaper than doing roadwork.

Sending photos to centralized database might be more expensive part, but then, perhaps those could be relayed for free via WiFi around (more social pressure).

smackay• 11 years ago

The interesting part of Velocidade Controlada is the attitude/culture behind it: prevention rather than punishment. Compare this to the UK where the equivalent system is a hidden camera and a series fines with the intention on criminalizing the driver.

Now if only this kinds of enlightened thinking could be exteneded to driving and talking on cell phones, driving at 200 km/h on the main highways and excessive speed at cross-walks then the roads in Portugal could become much safer and fewer lives would the ruined.

Portugal's Velocidade Controlada – speed control traffic signals

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