Reid Hoffman and Peter Thiel in China [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIj8rRBknAs

38 27 11 years ago

myth_buster3• 11 years ago

  Does China need to do anything new or is it good enough for
  china to simply copy things that have already worked. ~ Thiel

Wow, that was quite blunt and critical! I think what defines individuals and societies is how they react to it.

gozo2• 11 years ago

If you're late to the party of course you are going to "copy" others, that's what all the big SV companies did to get started. They go on and on about how innovative they are, but in reality the secret of SV is rather commercialization. Which is exactly what China is doing. Chinese companies are already beating SV on some fronts, like drones. He's just upset because China is challenging the exceptionalism of SV.

contingencies3• 11 years ago

Agreed. Classic examples: airbnb, docker, uber, etc.

dang3• 11 years ago

This comment sounds interesting at first, but on closer reading just makes grand claims without backing them up.

The tell is at the end: "He's just upset because China is challenging the exceptionalism of SV." You couldn't possibly know such a thing, therefore you've made it up, and that boomerangs on the rest of the comment as wishful thinking. That's not what we're looking for in HN comments. We want solid critique, not cheap shots.

ageek123• 11 years ago

If you read his book ("Zero to One") you'll see that he levels this same criticism against most SV companies, too. He's not just picking on China.

contingencies3• 11 years ago

Ironically being on Youtube this is a pain in the ass to view from here in China. Could someone issue a summary?

myth_buster3• 11 years ago

https://www.techinasia.com/thiel-hoffman-china-talk/

contingencies3• 11 years ago

The actually China-focused portion seems fairly small and self-evident.

seiji• 11 years ago

paraphrased: "If you hear someone describe their startup with trendy buzzwords (big data, SaaS, social, mobile, cloud), you should think fraud and run away. The fact you're using trendy buzzwords is an indication you aren't differentiated. You're a buzzword, so many other people are doing the exact same thing. Why are you special? Stop coping others."

If China were to start routinely cranking out highly valuable startups, you know reporters would call them Dragoncorns or Unidragons or something.

rdl2• 11 years ago

Well, there are a lot of highly valuable tech companies coming out of China. They're just not doing new things (0-1), but copying (mostly US) companies, often making them better.

Baidu, Alibaba, WeChat, Qihoo360, etc.

Although, tbh, Alibaba is pretty unique, and a lot of the video companies in China were dramatically different from stuff I've seen elsewhere. I think "China just copies" is overblown.

The China cheap-hw-production ecosystem is kind of a novel thing just by virtue of scale, too.

Garthex• 11 years ago

I was under the impression that WeChat falls under the 0-1 at this point.[0] Although to be fair, marketplaces have existed for centuries. I suppose sometimes it's hard to tell where the line is. They're certainly innovating though.

[0] http://a16z.com/2015/08/06/wechat-china-mobile-first/

lvs2• 11 years ago

I'm just going to make it a policy to flag pointless posts like this. They add nothing to the discussion here. This is not "content" by any reasonable definition.

kumarm• 11 years ago

I thought it was great content.

Peter Thiel's explanation on whether China can copy and survive for long time was great explanation and a valid point for any developing economy.

dang3• 11 years ago

That is a sure way to lose your flagging privileges. Assuming we're talking about the same video, it's plain as day that this is relevant content for HN. You may not like it; that's not an acceptable reason to flag it. Flagging is for stories that don't belong on HN in the first place.

I'll give you that the title "The Secret of Unicorns" was asinine, but that's just the usual linkbait and fixing it just the usual moderation.

lvs2• 11 years ago

No, it's my opinion that it doesn't add any intellectual content of any kind. You can disagree, of course, but flagging is supposed to be for that purpose, just as you say. You think your opinion is plain as day, but others disagree and very few upvoted this. Yes, the title is what set me off initially, but you seriously need to put effort into ensuring the discourse here does not degrade into a spiral of fluff. Just read the other comments in the thread. I wasn't alone.

dkarapetyan2• 11 years ago

I've been wondering more and more lately why tall, rich, white guys in suits have so many "insights". What exactly has Thiel done lately that warrants treating his opinions any differently than some other tall, rich, white guy's opinion? Other than just investing in companies is he really building anything?

Given that he is so far removed from the actual making of things maybe we should stop paying so much attention to him and folks like him in general. Having money and investing is nice but as far as insight is concerned I'd look elsewhere. In fact many of the points he makes just sound hollow, e.g. Microsoft Windows is the last OS, Facebook is the last social network, Google is the last search engine, Japan is not innovating, being contrarian is a sound business strategy, short term iteration + long term vision is a good thing, etc.

unfunco• 11 years ago

And the same goes for Hoffman. He's partly responsible for LinkedIn, which is in my opinion one of the most disgusting (in terms of their data collection, creepy analysis, and overall recruiter-heavy membership) companies that has ever been created, I don't understand why anyone (apart from the type of people who join get-rich-quick pyramid schemes in Las Vegas conference rooms) would want his advice.

dkarapetyan2• 11 years ago

Yup, linkedin from the perspective of a software developer is a pretty horrendous product both in terms of usability (dark UI patterns) and recruiter spam. I'm sure there is some value in having an account but I was not able to find any value.

I think most recruiters rightfully assume that if you have an account then you secretly want to be contacted and I'm sure most programmers feel like rockstars for being wanted so badly and being spammed with "opportunities". I closed my account a while ago for philosophical and practical reasons. I have yet to find a good professional network for programmers but given the state of the programmer job market I'm not feeling left out for not having a linkedin account.

kmonad• 11 years ago

I am underwhelmed by this presentation. It feels pretty shallow and spontaneous. The advice on how to spot a promising team seemed fair, whereas the run down of Japan's economy was cringy to say the least. Question #1 was simply great though:

    ...you cannot go and just copy stuff."

    Q: Are you not just copying LinkedIn here in China?

wozniacki• 11 years ago

Perhaps this will quench your thirst, A Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen debate from a different forum, the Milken Institute.[1] Some profound insights in there.

[1] Copy of In Tech We Trust? A Debate with Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtZbWnIALeE

edit: Appended

rdl2• 11 years ago

Yeah, the pmarca/thiel one was dramatically more interesting.

cma• 11 years ago

Over and over Thiel cites wages, mean wages, stagnating during the period while Andreessen counters with GDP growing. Both are true. Women entered the broader workforce en masse. Wages were down because of oversupply of labor, nearly doubling the workforce without doubling consumption.

Thiel really comes off dishonest, trying to make a big deal that it wasn't just median wages, mean wages stagnated--as if that proves it wasn't just a change in wealth distribution.

In actuality, there was a change in wealth distribution and median wages fell and mean wages stagnated, and the economy still grew because "wages" ignores people who aren't employed (or seeking employment?), and a hell of a lot more people became employeed during the time period. Really one of the most frustrating talks I've watched.

eli_gottlieb• 11 years ago

Meh, try the Thiel vs Graeber debate: http://thebaffler.com/videos/graeber-thiel#.VdnQA7O37tQ

samstave• 11 years ago

...you cannot go and just copy stuff.

And not to mention thats pretty much the growth model of China's entire economy

Reid Hoffman and Peter Thiel in China [video]

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